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We had a special Christmas past, present and future game last weekend, which went ok. I've been feeling a bit burned out recently, so I think for the immediate future one of my players is going to be running a mega-dungeon game for a bit. After a few weeks, i think we're going to trade off with some regularity.
Kamis, 30 Desember 2010
Rabu, 29 Desember 2010
On Abstraction and Saving Throws
I thought I had written about this already, but apparently not.
Modern systems seem to assume a baseline representation - i.e. I rolled twice, so each roll represents a swing of my sword or I can possibly move up to 10' a second, so in six seconds I move 60'.
At first blush this seems to make a lot of sense, but if you look at it too closely the abstraction inherent in hit points and saves breaks suspension of disbelief. i.e. Hit points suddenly becomes literal wounds dealt by specific sword blows. There are 3 saves reflex, will, and fortitude, and they literally and in a direct and visceral way represent 'getting out of the way' 'resisting with your mind' and 'enduring with your body'.
But wait - you made that reflex save and you're still standing up? You failed that fortitude save and didn't fall to your knees? When the saves represent literal specific things then it breaks suspension of disbelief. The 'three categories' of saves also seem very trite and videogamey.
But what of old school saves you say? Abstraction, and this indeed is why they are cool.
A Dungeons and Dragons is not like a aerial view action RPG that we are simulating with dice - good gods, it takes hours to fight a single combat that way. Instead it is much more like the surface of an atom. We have a general idea of what's going on down there, and we get bursts of specific information (say location OR velocity) and we use our imagination to draw the rest in our minds.
Take old school saves for instance. Paralyzation/Poison/Death magic, Rod/Staff/Wand, Petrification/Polymorph, Breath Weapon, and Spells.
But what do these mean? What do they represent?
Why that's the coolest thing about them! Nothing specific at all! All we know is success or failure - the actual means of that is up to you. (and your classes general ability to handle that specific kind of threat is built into the numbers)
Let's say your wizard makes a save versus spells - he inscribed arcane counter-spelling runes in the air before him to disperse the magical energies.
Let's say your paladin makes her save versus breath weapon - she holds her shield up and her gods divine grace splits the fire of the dragon in either direction.
Let's say your thief makes his save versus rods/staff/wand - he holds forth his reflective amulet and the beam hits it and bounces away.
The point is, that the game *doesn't* tell you how you make your save - that's part of the discovery of what's happening and the fun. Logistically it's a lot more fun to come up with answers for why things happen then trying to plot out a specific sequence of events that is occurring every six seconds. Also, you've got a lot more room for awesome and rule of cool in your descrptions.
So how to decide which save to use for a trap? Paralyzation/poison/death magic has to do with 2 things - toughness and divine grace.
Rod/Staff/Wand has to do with rays, artificial magic generation, and device based effects.
Petrification/Polymorph has with emotional and physical resilience. Self-control is a big factor here.
Breath Weapon has to do with area effects, luck, and grace.
Spells is a catch all category and the general domain of magic.
Clerics have the best saves versus paralyzation/poison/death magic.
Mages have the best overall starting saves and the worst high level ones
Fighters start off with the worst saves (by far) but eventually have the best saves.
Thieves start off slightly better than fighters, but end up slightly worse at 20th level.
Modern systems seem to assume a baseline representation - i.e. I rolled twice, so each roll represents a swing of my sword or I can possibly move up to 10' a second, so in six seconds I move 60'.
At first blush this seems to make a lot of sense, but if you look at it too closely the abstraction inherent in hit points and saves breaks suspension of disbelief. i.e. Hit points suddenly becomes literal wounds dealt by specific sword blows. There are 3 saves reflex, will, and fortitude, and they literally and in a direct and visceral way represent 'getting out of the way' 'resisting with your mind' and 'enduring with your body'.
But wait - you made that reflex save and you're still standing up? You failed that fortitude save and didn't fall to your knees? When the saves represent literal specific things then it breaks suspension of disbelief. The 'three categories' of saves also seem very trite and videogamey.
But what of old school saves you say? Abstraction, and this indeed is why they are cool.
A Dungeons and Dragons is not like a aerial view action RPG that we are simulating with dice - good gods, it takes hours to fight a single combat that way. Instead it is much more like the surface of an atom. We have a general idea of what's going on down there, and we get bursts of specific information (say location OR velocity) and we use our imagination to draw the rest in our minds.
Take old school saves for instance. Paralyzation/Poison/Death magic, Rod/Staff/Wand, Petrification/Polymorph, Breath Weapon, and Spells.
But what do these mean? What do they represent?
Why that's the coolest thing about them! Nothing specific at all! All we know is success or failure - the actual means of that is up to you. (and your classes general ability to handle that specific kind of threat is built into the numbers)
Let's say your wizard makes a save versus spells - he inscribed arcane counter-spelling runes in the air before him to disperse the magical energies.
Let's say your paladin makes her save versus breath weapon - she holds her shield up and her gods divine grace splits the fire of the dragon in either direction.
Let's say your thief makes his save versus rods/staff/wand - he holds forth his reflective amulet and the beam hits it and bounces away.
The point is, that the game *doesn't* tell you how you make your save - that's part of the discovery of what's happening and the fun. Logistically it's a lot more fun to come up with answers for why things happen then trying to plot out a specific sequence of events that is occurring every six seconds. Also, you've got a lot more room for awesome and rule of cool in your descrptions.
So how to decide which save to use for a trap? Paralyzation/poison/death magic has to do with 2 things - toughness and divine grace.
Rod/Staff/Wand has to do with rays, artificial magic generation, and device based effects.
Petrification/Polymorph has with emotional and physical resilience. Self-control is a big factor here.
Breath Weapon has to do with area effects, luck, and grace.
Spells is a catch all category and the general domain of magic.
Clerics have the best saves versus paralyzation/poison/death magic.
Mages have the best overall starting saves and the worst high level ones
Fighters start off with the worst saves (by far) but eventually have the best saves.
Thieves start off slightly better than fighters, but end up slightly worse at 20th level.
Selasa, 14 Desember 2010
On the Dispersion During Travel
There is an excellent post here, on The Tao of D&D which resonated very strongly with me. The general sense of the post is that when people travel, they don't do it in rigid formation - especially in formations where each person is standing right next to each other. (i.e. if they were to reach their arms out towards each other, they would overlap).
I've been in the military, and even when running in formation, there is pretty substantial give and take in just a two mile run. By 'pretty substantial give and take' I mean at no time was I consistently within 5' of the person who was supposed to be right next to me. On average I could have been anywhere between 5'-15' from them, and there were several points during the runs where it could have been even further than that - and this is not to begin to address the random variances in the distances of the people ahead or behind me which were much greater. People get spread out and separated, and this is with a group of people who's job it is to specifically travel in a group, and live, eat, shower, and drill together to work as a unit.
The most recent time I (and other people at my table) traveled in the wilderness went on an 8 hour float and we often weren't in sight of each other then. And let me tell you, there was no small amount of risk on that float. It's just the nature of outdoor travel.
When this suggestion was brought up at the table, everyone was amiable to giving it a try. When they saw the effects of the result, an uproar was raised! This is unpossible! they said. I respectfully disagree, and this is why.
If you have a group of people who's individuality is literally drilled out of them so they can respond to orders without thinking and engage in all activities as a unit, march less than an hour and have distances between any one person and the group be over 100' at times, why is it realistic to assume in a game which models fantasy heroes (Elric, Fahard and the Grey Mouser, Cudgel, Conan, Gandalf) that they would stay in some formation when traversing the wilderness? Especially at a distance that's already incredibly close when standing still?
Now there were several arguments made:
One was "There is some chance that I would still be in 'formation'." I explained my multi-part response to this at the table. First, if you stay in formation and everyone else moves, what advantage is there to having stayed in formation? A chance of being on the square you started on in no way alters the final result. Now, I agree that having the random fluctuation without the starting square being a landing point is valid. It's a byproduct of using the grenade scatter rules without a to hit roll. (This actually gives me an idea.)
Second, this method (roll grenade scatter dice) of scattering the party does not objectively model your formation! It isn't at all related to any specific action you take to stay 'in formation' any more then a roll to hit in 1st edition D&D models any individual sword thrust, or hit points model physical health, or saving throws model how you avoid the damage. It is random, and the explanations for why things were that way come after the result is discovered. (Discussed . . . uh, apparently I only wrote that post in my head. Expect it to actually be written soon.)
Another argument that was presented is "It reduces the effectiveness of the player characters!"
Ok, first - well duh, that's the point! Second, if you take a gnome, put him in heavy armor, and then complain that it takes him forever to get into combat if he's not standing right next to the people he's supposed to heal, the solution to that is to accept the consequence of gnome+heavy armor, not say it's unfair when you are unable to engineer the situation 100% of the time so that it doesn't become a factor.
Another argument was "But the wilderness is filled with dangerous creatures! We'd never let our guard down." Again, this is provable false, as evidenced by the behavior of men in war zones. When the threat of death is constant, it's only a matter of time till it becomes normalized or you crack. When the first shot is fired, there isn't a fire team alive that's in perfect position, and they are just going on patrol, not marching 20+ miles a day.
Now, clearly when exploring a dungeon, or other small, confined, indoor, or exceptionally dangerous place I'm not interesting in screwing around with their formation much - the time and space scale are both smaller. But this is days of travel outside! The vast majority of encounters are with animals or other tribes. All of the bad things to date that have happened in the wilderness have occurred when we A) weren't using this system, and B) when the players were specifically aggressive against neutral forest animals (who happened to be able to spit acid, but what can you do? Neutral not in regards to alignment, but reaction.) It certainly isn't like they are constantly being attacked by dragons - it's more like they spent 10 hours walking and only saw one or two animal groups interesting or hostile enough to be of note.
One thing that I could have done, is make it more clear that yes, they could indeed cut their daily travel down to 1/5 of what it was and have a greater chance of traveling in "formation". I'm not entirely sure that this improves the situation however. The way we play, this would give them 5 wandering monster checks per 2 miles of travel (three of which are at night), instead of 13 checks for 10 miles of travel (three of which are at night). Making them cover 10 miles in five days with 25 checks instead of in one day with 13. (These numbers are a little off of the average D&D travel numbers, but they are internally consistent for our game).
This comes down to the fact that it authentically makes wilderness travel dangerous in a creative way. It makes sense why they would protest - it's dangerous! So is life and travel. From the original post - with which I agree 100%.
The reason that the suggestion resonates most strongly for me is that it improves play in every way. It forces the players to be more creative, it increases the risk in encounters making them more exciting, and it's more interesting then the same unrealistic formation the party is in when they travel.
I've been in the military, and even when running in formation, there is pretty substantial give and take in just a two mile run. By 'pretty substantial give and take' I mean at no time was I consistently within 5' of the person who was supposed to be right next to me. On average I could have been anywhere between 5'-15' from them, and there were several points during the runs where it could have been even further than that - and this is not to begin to address the random variances in the distances of the people ahead or behind me which were much greater. People get spread out and separated, and this is with a group of people who's job it is to specifically travel in a group, and live, eat, shower, and drill together to work as a unit.
The most recent time I (and other people at my table) traveled in the wilderness went on an 8 hour float and we often weren't in sight of each other then. And let me tell you, there was no small amount of risk on that float. It's just the nature of outdoor travel.
When this suggestion was brought up at the table, everyone was amiable to giving it a try. When they saw the effects of the result, an uproar was raised! This is unpossible! they said. I respectfully disagree, and this is why.
If you have a group of people who's individuality is literally drilled out of them so they can respond to orders without thinking and engage in all activities as a unit, march less than an hour and have distances between any one person and the group be over 100' at times, why is it realistic to assume in a game which models fantasy heroes (Elric, Fahard and the Grey Mouser, Cudgel, Conan, Gandalf) that they would stay in some formation when traversing the wilderness? Especially at a distance that's already incredibly close when standing still?
Now there were several arguments made:
One was "There is some chance that I would still be in 'formation'." I explained my multi-part response to this at the table. First, if you stay in formation and everyone else moves, what advantage is there to having stayed in formation? A chance of being on the square you started on in no way alters the final result. Now, I agree that having the random fluctuation without the starting square being a landing point is valid. It's a byproduct of using the grenade scatter rules without a to hit roll. (This actually gives me an idea.)
Second, this method (roll grenade scatter dice) of scattering the party does not objectively model your formation! It isn't at all related to any specific action you take to stay 'in formation' any more then a roll to hit in 1st edition D&D models any individual sword thrust, or hit points model physical health, or saving throws model how you avoid the damage. It is random, and the explanations for why things were that way come after the result is discovered. (Discussed . . . uh, apparently I only wrote that post in my head. Expect it to actually be written soon.)
Another argument that was presented is "It reduces the effectiveness of the player characters!"
Ok, first - well duh, that's the point! Second, if you take a gnome, put him in heavy armor, and then complain that it takes him forever to get into combat if he's not standing right next to the people he's supposed to heal, the solution to that is to accept the consequence of gnome+heavy armor, not say it's unfair when you are unable to engineer the situation 100% of the time so that it doesn't become a factor.
Another argument was "But the wilderness is filled with dangerous creatures! We'd never let our guard down." Again, this is provable false, as evidenced by the behavior of men in war zones. When the threat of death is constant, it's only a matter of time till it becomes normalized or you crack. When the first shot is fired, there isn't a fire team alive that's in perfect position, and they are just going on patrol, not marching 20+ miles a day.
Now, clearly when exploring a dungeon, or other small, confined, indoor, or exceptionally dangerous place I'm not interesting in screwing around with their formation much - the time and space scale are both smaller. But this is days of travel outside! The vast majority of encounters are with animals or other tribes. All of the bad things to date that have happened in the wilderness have occurred when we A) weren't using this system, and B) when the players were specifically aggressive against neutral forest animals (who happened to be able to spit acid, but what can you do? Neutral not in regards to alignment, but reaction.) It certainly isn't like they are constantly being attacked by dragons - it's more like they spent 10 hours walking and only saw one or two animal groups interesting or hostile enough to be of note.
One thing that I could have done, is make it more clear that yes, they could indeed cut their daily travel down to 1/5 of what it was and have a greater chance of traveling in "formation". I'm not entirely sure that this improves the situation however. The way we play, this would give them 5 wandering monster checks per 2 miles of travel (three of which are at night), instead of 13 checks for 10 miles of travel (three of which are at night). Making them cover 10 miles in five days with 25 checks instead of in one day with 13. (These numbers are a little off of the average D&D travel numbers, but they are internally consistent for our game).
This comes down to the fact that it authentically makes wilderness travel dangerous in a creative way. It makes sense why they would protest - it's dangerous! So is life and travel. From the original post - with which I agree 100%.
Whatever the reason, and whatever the argument, it is patently ridiculous for the party to think it can remain in the pictured formation above every minute of the day. The chance of them all being within 5' of each other at any given moment is pretty nigh zero.I'm not sure that the language is strong enough there. Absurd perhaps.
The reason that the suggestion resonates most strongly for me is that it improves play in every way. It forces the players to be more creative, it increases the risk in encounters making them more exciting, and it's more interesting then the same unrealistic formation the party is in when they travel.
Session Eighteen
Travel has ensued
A small quest. Dimensional
invaders attack.
The above haiku mentions the bit that was left out of the last session post. Upon everyone reaching the Boarman city, there was a small quest done, where the players were sent to investigate a strange transparent pylon. There was a small battle against strange beasts, led by a heretofore unknown non-human.
That was what happened the previous week. This week however, they leveled up, and prepared to deal with the sea devils. They journeyed to the coast and set up a small basecamp. There were several encounters along the way, wild warthogs, some giant ants that were avoided.. There was a notable encounter against a small selection of acid weasels where one of the parties new bodyguards, a Gnoll fighter startled them and got blasted in the face with acid. 12d6 acid damage later, he was no more. So long Antis Aphex. :-)
They discovered a ridgeline, that was actually the skeletal corpse of a gigantic wurm or serpent with a huge human skull. They discovered a plaque written in an ancient language talking about a legendary sword that slew this monster. They also discovered the enchanted sea bridge and that it allowed the to travel and breath underwater. They set up camp, and will begin their underwater forays in the coming weeks.
A small quest. Dimensional
invaders attack.
The above haiku mentions the bit that was left out of the last session post. Upon everyone reaching the Boarman city, there was a small quest done, where the players were sent to investigate a strange transparent pylon. There was a small battle against strange beasts, led by a heretofore unknown non-human.
That was what happened the previous week. This week however, they leveled up, and prepared to deal with the sea devils. They journeyed to the coast and set up a small basecamp. There were several encounters along the way, wild warthogs, some giant ants that were avoided.. There was a notable encounter against a small selection of acid weasels where one of the parties new bodyguards, a Gnoll fighter startled them and got blasted in the face with acid. 12d6 acid damage later, he was no more. So long Antis Aphex. :-)
They discovered a ridgeline, that was actually the skeletal corpse of a gigantic wurm or serpent with a huge human skull. They discovered a plaque written in an ancient language talking about a legendary sword that slew this monster. They also discovered the enchanted sea bridge and that it allowed the to travel and breath underwater. They set up camp, and will begin their underwater forays in the coming weeks.
Minggu, 12 Desember 2010
On Genre
This is only tangentially related to tabletop gaming, but The Escapist has published a Genre wheel describing the different kinds of computer and electronic video game cartridges and discs.
The Genre Wheel
It's interesting not only in their approach, but also, at least for me, it works very much like the color wheel; in that my favorite genres are in fact compliments of each other on the wheel. Give it a go.
The Genre Wheel
It's interesting not only in their approach, but also, at least for me, it works very much like the color wheel; in that my favorite genres are in fact compliments of each other on the wheel. Give it a go.
Jumat, 10 Desember 2010
Session Seventeen
Obligatory.
Everyone was back last session, but it was a short one, cataloging their return to Agarbonu, the Boarman city. They had several encounters along the way, which they took some pains to avoid. They reached the city, and the sage gave them information about the Sahuagin threat. We have two of our players taking a bit of a hiatus, so we hope to see them in the future.
Everyone was back last session, but it was a short one, cataloging their return to Agarbonu, the Boarman city. They had several encounters along the way, which they took some pains to avoid. They reached the city, and the sage gave them information about the Sahuagin threat. We have two of our players taking a bit of a hiatus, so we hope to see them in the future.
Kamis, 02 Desember 2010
On Old School Hack
Tonight was our first session of Old School Hack. It was extremely awesome. I'm very fond of the system, it's quick and simple and quite enjoyable.
The best thing about it is the full on old school nature of the game. One of the players was asking how he searched for a trap. The answer being that you tell the DM what you are doing. The rules system was very light, leading to some silly conversations ("Where does it let me talk in combat?!") I didn't say anything at the time, because I like the combat system. Frankly, you can run large, dramatic, intense battles using it. The leveling system is nice, and the powers are quite cool.
The theme was a little brighter then normal for the game. Sort of more of a fantasy kingdom, enchanted forest, then gritty survivalist world-ending play. The Dungeon Master said at one point that it was related to gender, but that's less of a factor then the outlook and tastes in fantasy. Plus, when you're behind the wheel of a game after a long time without running one, it can be a very intimidating experience. It was fun having them run the game.
I have several thoughts about the game:
The best thing about it is the full on old school nature of the game. One of the players was asking how he searched for a trap. The answer being that you tell the DM what you are doing. The rules system was very light, leading to some silly conversations ("Where does it let me talk in combat?!") I didn't say anything at the time, because I like the combat system. Frankly, you can run large, dramatic, intense battles using it. The leveling system is nice, and the powers are quite cool.
The theme was a little brighter then normal for the game. Sort of more of a fantasy kingdom, enchanted forest, then gritty survivalist world-ending play. The Dungeon Master said at one point that it was related to gender, but that's less of a factor then the outlook and tastes in fantasy. Plus, when you're behind the wheel of a game after a long time without running one, it can be a very intimidating experience. It was fun having them run the game.
I have several thoughts about the game:
- People who have not played Dungeons and Dragons 0E, Amber Diceless, Fudge, or other dice light, story heavy games should definitely read A Quick Primer For Old School Gaming. Also here. and here. The answer to "Does the door look trapped?" is always no. :-p The game is in the description back and forth, not in the rolls.
- It's a mistake to try and fit every action into a box. The game is less about rules and more about actual role-playing. It's my opinion that the most structured part of the game (the combat turn) is just a guideline at best.
- On the other hand, there really needs to be a mechanic for re-rolling. Stats bottom out at -2 and max out at +5. When I got, not just way below average stats, but stats with no interesting character (-1 four times, and 0 twice) I was a bit upset. I only rolled higher than 9 twice, and never higher than 11. What the players came up with was having to pick a new class if I wanted a re-roll, which was pretty frustrating. I mean, I wanted to play the class I wanted to play. I would prefer there to be options for authentically bad stats (-3/4/5) just like authentically good ones, along with a mulligan option.
- It's a great system.
Rabu, 01 Desember 2010
On Supplimental Material
So, I've been kind of confused about the poor response to the treasure and psionic documents. I don't really have access to download numbers, but no one has commented on them. I have gotten a few comments (almost all good) from the threads I've started.
I then realized I use several resources, who's authors I'm sure I've never contacted. So, here are some links to what I have found to be very useful documents. If any of these links fail (in the future), please e-mail me so I can update this post. If you like them (or mine) perhaps you should draw some attention to them on your own blogs.
Random Magical Effects:
This was a surprise, when searching for the original link, I discovered not only the file I use, but an updated version. Each file has d10,000 (4d10) random magical effects for wild surges, chaos bursts, spell mishap, and alchemical mishap rolls. These may also be used for artifacts, wands of wonder, random magical side effects, and more. They are written by Orrex, who did manage to print his e-mail address in the version 2.0 of his file. There are comments that some of his entries are 'inappropriate' for fantasy games (Caster now owns a widescreen television), but those people are explicitly wrong. Gygax accounted for all this in his basic dimensional models. Also, what else is better to fall upon a casters head.
The links:
Version 1.2
Version 2.0
Character Traits:
I was unable to locate the source of this file. It's a listing of a variety of character traits as well as 400 personality traits. I've uploaded the file in the hopes that it will help someone else. Again, this is not my document.
Character Traits
Plots:
This is a list of a variety of dramatic conflicts, along with their variations.
The Big List of RPG Plots
Again, I'm not the creator of any of these documents, just that I've used them and they have been very helpful.
I then realized I use several resources, who's authors I'm sure I've never contacted. So, here are some links to what I have found to be very useful documents. If any of these links fail (in the future), please e-mail me so I can update this post. If you like them (or mine) perhaps you should draw some attention to them on your own blogs.
Random Magical Effects:
This was a surprise, when searching for the original link, I discovered not only the file I use, but an updated version. Each file has d10,000 (4d10) random magical effects for wild surges, chaos bursts, spell mishap, and alchemical mishap rolls. These may also be used for artifacts, wands of wonder, random magical side effects, and more. They are written by Orrex, who did manage to print his e-mail address in the version 2.0 of his file. There are comments that some of his entries are 'inappropriate' for fantasy games (Caster now owns a widescreen television), but those people are explicitly wrong. Gygax accounted for all this in his basic dimensional models. Also, what else is better to fall upon a casters head.
The links:
Version 1.2
Version 2.0
Character Traits:
I was unable to locate the source of this file. It's a listing of a variety of character traits as well as 400 personality traits. I've uploaded the file in the hopes that it will help someone else. Again, this is not my document.
Character Traits
Plots:
This is a list of a variety of dramatic conflicts, along with their variations.
The Big List of RPG Plots
Again, I'm not the creator of any of these documents, just that I've used them and they have been very helpful.
Jumat, 26 November 2010
Treasure Update
It can be found here. What is it?
From the document:
What did historical looters find of value?
Art.
Goods.
Furnishings.
Where are the tables for these things? Well, completely unsatisfied with every hodgepodge treasure table scattered all over the universe, I decided to compile a little document that would help me when preparing my games. Now you can roll up an 800 gp armoire that the players will walk right past when you roll that 20 for room contents. (Unguarded treasure?!) Now you can put more than enough treasure in the game for the players, and leave it up to them if they want to sell their diamond bells, or try to figure out how to move their 500 pounds of iron ingots. Now you can actually *know* how difficult to move whatever they find actually is.
Inside you can find information on how to describe magical swords, what treasure containers could exist, how to generate hoards containing items such as art, gems, jewelry, coins, goods, furnishings, and clothing as well as how to describe in detail each of the items above.
It's totally free - if you take it, and like it, please comment about it, either here, by e-mail or in your blog. I'd love to know if anyone is using this document and what they think.
Kamis, 25 November 2010
On a Happy Turkey Day
Hi all! Hope everyone has something to be thankful for! I wish (level 9) everyone a happy Thanksgiving!
I am very thankful I have such a wonderful gaming group.
I wanted to say that 5 of 8 members in our gaming group no longer have jobs in the last year, in many cases due to this 'recession'. I wish them the best. I have no doubt the coming year will be a better one for all of them. I hope gaming takes their mind off their stresses for a little while, I look forward to seeing them every week. May everyone have plenty of good gaming this holiday season. Goodness knows I already sent out our gaming schedule. :-)
I am very thankful I have such a wonderful gaming group.
I wanted to say that 5 of 8 members in our gaming group no longer have jobs in the last year, in many cases due to this 'recession'. I wish them the best. I have no doubt the coming year will be a better one for all of them. I hope gaming takes their mind off their stresses for a little while, I look forward to seeing them every week. May everyone have plenty of good gaming this holiday season. Goodness knows I already sent out our gaming schedule. :-)
On the Orc
Why is the orc the iconic face of Dungeons and Dragons humanoids? In large part it has to do with Tolkien's treatment of them in the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit, but not all the responsibility can be laid at the feet of those two works. It goes beyond just official orcs also. Anyone can create something, but for it to catch on it has to resonate somehow with humanity. A hallmark of fantasy is a large violent humanoid race that exists in the wilds, uncivilized, in competition with man. Why?
I had a realization the other day about this very question. Human beings have evolved several traits to procure food in a very successful manner. Large brain mass so that we could remember where all the good fruit is. Various adaptations that make us good at tool use and adaptation in differing climates.
At some point in the past there was a break, a differing path of evolution of man. One branch developed teamwork, squad level tactics, along with excellent communication skills. They perfected weapons like spears, and traps like deadfalls. They had thick dense bones, and generation and generation they developed more and more powerful musculature. They perfected techniques that allowed them to bring down the largest and most violent animals. They were strong and quick and smart.
The other developmental path taken was wiry, thin, and good at running. Relaxed, with no skill at weaponry or combat. Constantly on the move. We must have seemed strange to our neanderthal cousins who were superior to us in almost every way. Then something happened.
It got warm. As the large game animals retreated into the forests, the neanderthals began to starve. You couldn't back an antelope into a canyon trap, they was a herd and they were too fast. Meanwhile, our adaptations (heat dispersion though the skin, the arch of the human foot, our endurance) allowed us to run our food to death, practically at will. Their food source literally disappeared. Soon enough, so did they.
But they didn't disappear from our memory. Beings, like us, strong, bestial, and warlike. Brutish, physically superior to us in nearly every way. Gone, but not forgotten.
Is it any wonder why it's such a powerful image?
I had a realization the other day about this very question. Human beings have evolved several traits to procure food in a very successful manner. Large brain mass so that we could remember where all the good fruit is. Various adaptations that make us good at tool use and adaptation in differing climates.
At some point in the past there was a break, a differing path of evolution of man. One branch developed teamwork, squad level tactics, along with excellent communication skills. They perfected weapons like spears, and traps like deadfalls. They had thick dense bones, and generation and generation they developed more and more powerful musculature. They perfected techniques that allowed them to bring down the largest and most violent animals. They were strong and quick and smart.
The other developmental path taken was wiry, thin, and good at running. Relaxed, with no skill at weaponry or combat. Constantly on the move. We must have seemed strange to our neanderthal cousins who were superior to us in almost every way. Then something happened.
It got warm. As the large game animals retreated into the forests, the neanderthals began to starve. You couldn't back an antelope into a canyon trap, they was a herd and they were too fast. Meanwhile, our adaptations (heat dispersion though the skin, the arch of the human foot, our endurance) allowed us to run our food to death, practically at will. Their food source literally disappeared. Soon enough, so did they.
But they didn't disappear from our memory. Beings, like us, strong, bestial, and warlike. Brutish, physically superior to us in nearly every way. Gone, but not forgotten.
Is it any wonder why it's such a powerful image?
Senin, 22 November 2010
Session Fifteen and Session Sixteen
A small note to my players: These session reports contain information that is spoilers for your current characters who are staying with the Hightide Fen clan. Feel free to read, but remember, anything you read cannot affect your decision making process when deciding where to go next week. (The session Fourteen post is here. It was saved and was posted in-line.)
Again, we had several players not show up for Session Fifteen; and after some uncertainty, we had them not show up again for session Sixteen.
I've talked to may players, and this isn't directed at them. This is a general question to the people who aren't in my game. How many sessions can a player miss (consecutively, or erratically) until you free up their seat to add a new person? (And if they only tell you they aren't going to make it hours before the game *Shakes fist*)
During session Fifteen, the reduced group spent some time within the Agarbonu, the Boarman city. Initially they arrived and Spiritspyre immediately went off to talk to his high priest who's name translates as Leafblower, while they stayed in the outer miles of uninhabited city. A few random rolls later, and I found out the personality of his priest was bigoted. Suddenly Spiritspyre's constant refrain of "You're gods don't live here! Go Home!" made much more sense. He immediately rounded up a dozen guards and set off to arrest the player characters.
Arriving, and announcing his intention to arrest them and throw them in Jail, Null, Zeltara's silver drake, breathed his paralyzing gas upon the Boarmen, and they tied them all up. They coerced a cure from Zeltara's deafness from the Leafblower (who was a cleric of no meek level).
They then headed off to visit the 'non-boarman' section of the city. There, they found many Ape-men of various tribes, and Gnolls of various tribes. They also saw a strange people with broad jaws, and sharp teeth wearing strange clothes known as the Shi'ar, and several times caught a glimpse of some people who looked suspiciously human. While drunk Zeltara was pretty sure he saw a talking giant spider wearing clothes, but nobody paid him much mind. They attempted to talk to one of the Ape-men of the Chokwe Tribe named Marduk, but he was restless and made the party nervous.
At that point there was some discussion of leaving town (!), and I sort of fell down from my earlier resolve to be 'impartial' and 'not-involved'. I asked why they would leave after just having met two people, in a city of 3000. I pointed out that this was a town with many sages and libraries, in addition to more resources then they have had to date. Upon reflection, I really should not have said anything. There is a line between communicating clearly and insuring the players understand the situation, versus leading them by the nose to where you want them to go. We had a bit of discussion during the next session where my players reminded me they were raised on newer, more linear, versions of the game, and it's hard to remember that sometimes.
After the discussion, they headed towards the civic center, met the trusting Boarman, Hornsong. They reported the attempt of the arrest, and Hornsong shook his head, familar with the racist rabble rousing that Leafblower often engages in. He said he would take care of it, and sent some troops to where Spiritspyre and Leafblower and his men were tied up. They paid the numerous fees and taxes the city requested, and did some much needed training. They made regular foray's out into the woods to check on the valley, and the town, and soon discovered that where once Trenton, the town they had been banished from had stood, was now destroyed. They contacted a sage and with much frustration, parted with their hard earned gold. The sage told them it would be many days before they would receive their answer.
They decided to spend the rest of the gaming night, seeking adventure and treasure. While preparing, healing and shopping in town, they again ran across Spiritspyre in a prison cage. After he informed them he had changed to a different god, he somehow talked them into letting him back into the party. They headed back to the Zunel complex, killing several Wild Boars on the way. Once inside, they descended to new territory, setting off a trap blocking them from heading back the way they entered. They explored a small chamber and fought several Shadows, which were turned in short order. They found a small horde of valuables, discovered a stairway up which they were able to locate on the fully mapped first floor, and we ended for the night there.
I've combined these two sessions for several reasons. First, the same group of players canceled on each session. Second, session sixteen was a comedy of errors.
Still waiting for the sage's research, they left seeking more treasure. Their first plan was to head out to the Mabden Treasure Cache, but after leaving they headed straight for the ancient Gorm Dungeon beneath the petrified tree. On the way they fought and handily killed several Poisonous Toads. It was late in the day when they reached the petrified tree, and they decided to camp. They bedded down for the night, and in the early morning, had an encounter. With 19 Ghouls. Woken up, instead of fleeing, they began attacking, some without armor. They fought desperately. It seemed as if things might turn their way, but disaster struck and Spiritspyre became paralyzed. Lacking the ability to turn the Ghouls, the battle quickly went bad.
Lost, and considering the situation only in terms of what they could do on the mat, I again walked that line of discussing options with the players. I pointed out that they should check their coupons, perhaps something might be useful there. Also, I informed them that they could always request Divine Intervention. After the fight we had a small discussion during dinner and I mentioned that I was dissapointed in myself for telling them what to do. They accurately pointed out to me that they had no idea they could even request divine intervention. Spiritspyre, requesting divine intervention (base 1%) being on a mission for his god (+25%), being a 4th level (+4%) cleric (+3%), and never having asked for intervention before (+5%), was granted reprieve (Rolled a 17%). Out of the darkness, several forest warriors appeared, looking shockingly human on this strange alien continent, standing six to seven feet tall, with dark hair, heavy brows, and large noses, wearing leathers and hides. They killed the Ghouls, thick arrow shafts piercing their chests, a squad cutting them apart with hand axes, before fading back off into the night. Only one stood to cast a troubled look towards the party before loping off into the distance.
After this fight, a small discussion was had, the same one I've mentioned earlier. I also shared this nugget of old school thinking. One of the reasons this battle went south, was they forgot their purpose! They were heading to the Mabden Cache. Stopping to face large numbers of undead or any wandering monster is dangerous and could lead them off the track. If a battle isn't necessary avoid it. Encounters range from all different types, there is no level appropriate encounter. Focus on your goal. This advice would prove to be prophetic.
Damaged, and with a henchmen dead they headed for town. Healing up, they headed out one last time to again, explore a nearby place. Soon they came across a trail of ants, Giant Ants. Sixteen were found. Ignoring their goal, they engaged the ants. It seemed to be going well, many ants were falling. They would pinch on, and stab with their stingers, the poison seeming not particularly strong. In a few minutes the ants were vanquished, leaving only Zeltara, Null, and Niles poisoned. Simple enough they thought. As each minute went by, they got sicker and sicker. Over an hour away from town, Spritspyre's substantial healing abilities were quickly drained, and they continued to pale, and become ill.
Less then twenty minutes after the defeat of the ants, Zeltara, curled up in the arms of the noble silver drake, Null, and closed his non-ressurectable elven eyes for the last time. Null followed him peacefully soon after.
Stay focused.
Again, we had several players not show up for Session Fifteen; and after some uncertainty, we had them not show up again for session Sixteen.
I've talked to may players, and this isn't directed at them. This is a general question to the people who aren't in my game. How many sessions can a player miss (consecutively, or erratically) until you free up their seat to add a new person? (And if they only tell you they aren't going to make it hours before the game *Shakes fist*)
During session Fifteen, the reduced group spent some time within the Agarbonu, the Boarman city. Initially they arrived and Spiritspyre immediately went off to talk to his high priest who's name translates as Leafblower, while they stayed in the outer miles of uninhabited city. A few random rolls later, and I found out the personality of his priest was bigoted. Suddenly Spiritspyre's constant refrain of "You're gods don't live here! Go Home!" made much more sense. He immediately rounded up a dozen guards and set off to arrest the player characters.
Arriving, and announcing his intention to arrest them and throw them in Jail, Null, Zeltara's silver drake, breathed his paralyzing gas upon the Boarmen, and they tied them all up. They coerced a cure from Zeltara's deafness from the Leafblower (who was a cleric of no meek level).
They then headed off to visit the 'non-boarman' section of the city. There, they found many Ape-men of various tribes, and Gnolls of various tribes. They also saw a strange people with broad jaws, and sharp teeth wearing strange clothes known as the Shi'ar, and several times caught a glimpse of some people who looked suspiciously human. While drunk Zeltara was pretty sure he saw a talking giant spider wearing clothes, but nobody paid him much mind. They attempted to talk to one of the Ape-men of the Chokwe Tribe named Marduk, but he was restless and made the party nervous.
At that point there was some discussion of leaving town (!), and I sort of fell down from my earlier resolve to be 'impartial' and 'not-involved'. I asked why they would leave after just having met two people, in a city of 3000. I pointed out that this was a town with many sages and libraries, in addition to more resources then they have had to date. Upon reflection, I really should not have said anything. There is a line between communicating clearly and insuring the players understand the situation, versus leading them by the nose to where you want them to go. We had a bit of discussion during the next session where my players reminded me they were raised on newer, more linear, versions of the game, and it's hard to remember that sometimes.
After the discussion, they headed towards the civic center, met the trusting Boarman, Hornsong. They reported the attempt of the arrest, and Hornsong shook his head, familar with the racist rabble rousing that Leafblower often engages in. He said he would take care of it, and sent some troops to where Spiritspyre and Leafblower and his men were tied up. They paid the numerous fees and taxes the city requested, and did some much needed training. They made regular foray's out into the woods to check on the valley, and the town, and soon discovered that where once Trenton, the town they had been banished from had stood, was now destroyed. They contacted a sage and with much frustration, parted with their hard earned gold. The sage told them it would be many days before they would receive their answer.
They decided to spend the rest of the gaming night, seeking adventure and treasure. While preparing, healing and shopping in town, they again ran across Spiritspyre in a prison cage. After he informed them he had changed to a different god, he somehow talked them into letting him back into the party. They headed back to the Zunel complex, killing several Wild Boars on the way. Once inside, they descended to new territory, setting off a trap blocking them from heading back the way they entered. They explored a small chamber and fought several Shadows, which were turned in short order. They found a small horde of valuables, discovered a stairway up which they were able to locate on the fully mapped first floor, and we ended for the night there.
I've combined these two sessions for several reasons. First, the same group of players canceled on each session. Second, session sixteen was a comedy of errors.
Still waiting for the sage's research, they left seeking more treasure. Their first plan was to head out to the Mabden Treasure Cache, but after leaving they headed straight for the ancient Gorm Dungeon beneath the petrified tree. On the way they fought and handily killed several Poisonous Toads. It was late in the day when they reached the petrified tree, and they decided to camp. They bedded down for the night, and in the early morning, had an encounter. With 19 Ghouls. Woken up, instead of fleeing, they began attacking, some without armor. They fought desperately. It seemed as if things might turn their way, but disaster struck and Spiritspyre became paralyzed. Lacking the ability to turn the Ghouls, the battle quickly went bad.
Lost, and considering the situation only in terms of what they could do on the mat, I again walked that line of discussing options with the players. I pointed out that they should check their coupons, perhaps something might be useful there. Also, I informed them that they could always request Divine Intervention. After the fight we had a small discussion during dinner and I mentioned that I was dissapointed in myself for telling them what to do. They accurately pointed out to me that they had no idea they could even request divine intervention. Spiritspyre, requesting divine intervention (base 1%) being on a mission for his god (+25%), being a 4th level (+4%) cleric (+3%), and never having asked for intervention before (+5%), was granted reprieve (Rolled a 17%). Out of the darkness, several forest warriors appeared, looking shockingly human on this strange alien continent, standing six to seven feet tall, with dark hair, heavy brows, and large noses, wearing leathers and hides. They killed the Ghouls, thick arrow shafts piercing their chests, a squad cutting them apart with hand axes, before fading back off into the night. Only one stood to cast a troubled look towards the party before loping off into the distance.
After this fight, a small discussion was had, the same one I've mentioned earlier. I also shared this nugget of old school thinking. One of the reasons this battle went south, was they forgot their purpose! They were heading to the Mabden Cache. Stopping to face large numbers of undead or any wandering monster is dangerous and could lead them off the track. If a battle isn't necessary avoid it. Encounters range from all different types, there is no level appropriate encounter. Focus on your goal. This advice would prove to be prophetic.
Damaged, and with a henchmen dead they headed for town. Healing up, they headed out one last time to again, explore a nearby place. Soon they came across a trail of ants, Giant Ants. Sixteen were found. Ignoring their goal, they engaged the ants. It seemed to be going well, many ants were falling. They would pinch on, and stab with their stingers, the poison seeming not particularly strong. In a few minutes the ants were vanquished, leaving only Zeltara, Null, and Niles poisoned. Simple enough they thought. As each minute went by, they got sicker and sicker. Over an hour away from town, Spritspyre's substantial healing abilities were quickly drained, and they continued to pale, and become ill.
Stay focused.
Rabu, 17 November 2010
On Perception and Observation
These should not be skills.
I was a big fan of these types of skills for a long time (roll intelligence + perception, roll your spot, roll your observation check), till I listened to someone else play in a system with these skills.
"Roll your search," *clatter*, "You don't see any traps," "I open the door," "There's a room," "I search it for treasure and traps," "Roll your search," *clatter* "You don't see any treasure or traps," "I search the doors," "Roll your search," *clatter*, "you don't see any traps, the door is locked," "I unlock it," "Roll your open locks," *clatter*.
Is this fun?
I can come up with several objective reasons why it *isn't* fun.
First is the issue of spotlight time. Either one person has the search skill only (or has trapfinding, let's say) and dominates table time and yet all they are doing is rolling their skill over and over (see the second point). Or *everyone* has the perception-type skill and feels forced to train it over and over because of how important it is. In a system like 3.5 it becomes a skill sink on the non-thief characters; in non-level-based skill systems like Hackmaster, they spend all their time training it until it's up to an unreasonable percentage.
Second, the player has no input on the gameplay. The only time their decision making comes into play (their choices, or 'fun') is when they are leveling and they make the choice to increase the skill. After that it's just rolling at the table every time the DM wants to find out if you can see something.
Now, maybe some people enjoy using dice to reach a statistical mean while six people sit around waiting for something to happen. Maybe your game is a complex combat simulation where you go from fight to fight to fight in the course of an evening. I could see it being useful in both these situations.
I'll have three to six fights a night (sometimes as many as ten or twelve). we generally play for about seven hours, and we rarely spend more than two hours in an evening fighting. (And that was for a melee with around 100 participants. We've had 2 other long combats against groups of undead who don't fall down and die and can't be turned). Mostly we spend adventuring, exploring, and role-playing.
Here's the most important point I think. You don't need this skill. Either you tell them the information because you want them to know it, or you wait for them to look for the information. The whole play of the game is wrapped up in the interaction this skill serves to eliminate. "But what if they don't think of where to look?" "How will they know the trap is there?" Let me repeat myself.
The whole play of the game is wrapped up in the interaction this skill serves to eliminate.
It is the players job to notice these things. Take the Find Traps skill - it still exists in my game. We use it very much like a savings throw. The players tell me how they are moving throughout the environment, what precautions they are taking, etc. Then I describe what happens. They often prod ahead of them with a 10' pole, and they move slowly, mapping and examining around for traps. There was a flaming gas vent trap they avoided. . .
"The hallway ahead looks darker."
"Wait, why does it look dark?"
"You don't know."
"I check out the walls and floor, prodding ahead with the pole."
"You notice that the walls and floor appear to have dark stains on them."
"What kind of stains, I rub my finger along them."
"You see that the walls are covered in soot."
"I look closer on the tops and bottoms of the walls ahead."
"In the darkness you see several vents."
"We go the other way."
Or.
"Roll your search/observation/perception"
"I got a 17"
"Flaming jets burn you"
Or.
"Roll your search/Observation/perception"
"I got a 27"
"You find a trap"
There is a strong movement in modern systems away from the deathtrap. You know why? Because the players don't have any control of the game. In the way I run my game, if a player runs into a death trap it's because they did something stupid. Not because of random chance.
I was a big fan of these types of skills for a long time (roll intelligence + perception, roll your spot, roll your observation check), till I listened to someone else play in a system with these skills.
"Roll your search," *clatter*, "You don't see any traps," "I open the door," "There's a room," "I search it for treasure and traps," "Roll your search," *clatter* "You don't see any treasure or traps," "I search the doors," "Roll your search," *clatter*, "you don't see any traps, the door is locked," "I unlock it," "Roll your open locks," *clatter*.
Is this fun?
I can come up with several objective reasons why it *isn't* fun.
First is the issue of spotlight time. Either one person has the search skill only (or has trapfinding, let's say) and dominates table time and yet all they are doing is rolling their skill over and over (see the second point). Or *everyone* has the perception-type skill and feels forced to train it over and over because of how important it is. In a system like 3.5 it becomes a skill sink on the non-thief characters; in non-level-based skill systems like Hackmaster, they spend all their time training it until it's up to an unreasonable percentage.
Second, the player has no input on the gameplay. The only time their decision making comes into play (their choices, or 'fun') is when they are leveling and they make the choice to increase the skill. After that it's just rolling at the table every time the DM wants to find out if you can see something.
Now, maybe some people enjoy using dice to reach a statistical mean while six people sit around waiting for something to happen. Maybe your game is a complex combat simulation where you go from fight to fight to fight in the course of an evening. I could see it being useful in both these situations.
I'll have three to six fights a night (sometimes as many as ten or twelve). we generally play for about seven hours, and we rarely spend more than two hours in an evening fighting. (And that was for a melee with around 100 participants. We've had 2 other long combats against groups of undead who don't fall down and die and can't be turned). Mostly we spend adventuring, exploring, and role-playing.
Here's the most important point I think. You don't need this skill. Either you tell them the information because you want them to know it, or you wait for them to look for the information. The whole play of the game is wrapped up in the interaction this skill serves to eliminate. "But what if they don't think of where to look?" "How will they know the trap is there?" Let me repeat myself.
The whole play of the game is wrapped up in the interaction this skill serves to eliminate.
It is the players job to notice these things. Take the Find Traps skill - it still exists in my game. We use it very much like a savings throw. The players tell me how they are moving throughout the environment, what precautions they are taking, etc. Then I describe what happens. They often prod ahead of them with a 10' pole, and they move slowly, mapping and examining around for traps. There was a flaming gas vent trap they avoided. . .
"The hallway ahead looks darker."
"Wait, why does it look dark?"
"You don't know."
"I check out the walls and floor, prodding ahead with the pole."
"You notice that the walls and floor appear to have dark stains on them."
"What kind of stains, I rub my finger along them."
"You see that the walls are covered in soot."
"I look closer on the tops and bottoms of the walls ahead."
"In the darkness you see several vents."
"We go the other way."
Or.
"Roll your search/observation/perception"
"I got a 17"
"Flaming jets burn you"
Or.
"Roll your search/Observation/perception"
"I got a 27"
"You find a trap"
There is a strong movement in modern systems away from the deathtrap. You know why? Because the players don't have any control of the game. In the way I run my game, if a player runs into a death trap it's because they did something stupid. Not because of random chance.
On an Update
We again had several players not show up, which explains why there was no session post this week. The reason there weren't any blog posts is that I've been picking up extra hours at work.
Last night when I had the chance to write a blog post, I instead finished my piece for the next issue of Fight On! I'm not certain it'll be usable, but I hope it is.
Things should return to normal shortly.
Last night when I had the chance to write a blog post, I instead finished my piece for the next issue of Fight On! I'm not certain it'll be usable, but I hope it is.
Things should return to normal shortly.
Selasa, 09 November 2010
On Dump Stats
One of the most irritating things - my largest pet, in my collection of peeves, if you will of modern games is the non-representation of statistics.
Every intelligence based caster has an intelligence statistic of 20+. Is that because they are all super-geniuses? No. It's because characters are created with point buy, or arrange to taste, and spell saves are based off of your intelligence modifier. Your stats are completely disconnected from your character.
But wait! you say. It's true that certain skills could be modified so that you are less good at those skills. And at low levels, this could actually affect your play experience. But as a by product of the infinite scaling of the d20 system, any skill you aren't putting points into at every level, becomes outclassed as you hit the higher levels.
The advantage of old school "3d6 down the line, statistics are where they stick" is that they authentically describe a real person. If you have an intelligence of 6, this means you are actually retarded, limited in the number of languages you can receive (and in Hackmaster, crippled in your skill acquisition). In 3rd edition, you have a -3 penalty to skill checks based off of intelligence. If you don't cast, this is the only limiting factor easily offset by the expenditure of some skill points.
I think it's a problem for me, because of the 'sameness'. There is no mechanical justification or reason in the more modern games to not pump your intelligence up to 24 if you are playing a wizard. There is no mechanical justification for not sacking your other statistics, (i.e. dump stats). Too much depends on this mechanical advantage (every 2 points in intelligence, making it 5% more likely your spells will work). And due to the default creation options, every wizard is a super-genius, instead of a real person with a variety of abilities.
The same can be found in discussions of characters with MAD or how multiple attribute dependency classes are weaker, because there are fewer 'dump stats'.
Well, I run a 1st edition / Hackmaster game, and let me tell you, there are no dump stats, no matter what your class.
Strength: The most important thing that strength does is carrying capacity. I see everyone focused on the plus to hit, or the extra damage - but the real value of strength comes from what you can carry around. Those few extra points of damage in the best case, might buy you a round of combat. It's very very rare that this has any actual impact upon play or the results thereof - and when it does, the issue of choosing to engage in combat was where the real choice was made. But when encumbrance comes up it always has an effect on play. (How are you going to carry those coins? How long are you afloat? How long can you stand there and beat on someone? How fast can you run again?)
Dexterity: Nothing spectacular here, but who doesn't want a lower armor class, and to hit better with missile weapons. Another critical issue with dexterity is the reaction adjustment. Oh, shit, the party is surprised? Well, you're surprised that much less. Considering surprise is the most dangerous part of an encounter, the most likely way for players to die, this can be critical.
Constitution: Again, having an average constitution is fine, but no one would call it a dump stat. Extra hit points, and increased survival chances from system shocks. Also, this is a major factor in your resistance to disease or alcoholism.
Intelligence: This represents the number of languages it is possible for you to know. This is a critical feature in my games. Also, in Hackmaster, it represents you chance to learn skills. Magic-Users needed this stat to determine the number of spells they could know per level, and their chance to learn spells. I think it's worth pointing out that this statistic allows someone to be an effective magic-user without being 18+. A magic user with an intelligence of 10 can cast spells up to 5th level, and know 7 spells of every level. An intelligence of 13 (above average) is needed to avoid spell failure chance.
Wisdom: This statistic in Hackmaster determines your % chance when you check a skill for that skill to automatically increase. If you're not playing a cleric, high or low values can affect your magical defense adjustment.
Charisma: This is the single most important statistic in old school play. Often derided as useless or without point, called the original dump stat - it is in fact the most crucial. It determines how many henchmen you may have and their loyalty. If you have a 17 in Strength, you may hit 15% more often and do an extra four or five points of damage. If you have a 17 Charisma, you get your attack and then your ten henchmen each get their attacks. Which will have a larger effect on combat?
Again, I point out that these aren't abstract combat statistics as they are in the later editions of the game. The reason I feel that the later editions have statistics that aren't representative of the characters is that the statistics almost exclusively affect combat orientated things. The above numbers do affect many things that affect combat, but not all.
They are representative of the capabilities of the character - who they are as a person.
Interestingly enough, reviewing "Men & Magic" I discover that more text is devoted to the effects of charisma then any other statistic.
Every intelligence based caster has an intelligence statistic of 20+. Is that because they are all super-geniuses? No. It's because characters are created with point buy, or arrange to taste, and spell saves are based off of your intelligence modifier. Your stats are completely disconnected from your character.
But wait! you say. It's true that certain skills could be modified so that you are less good at those skills. And at low levels, this could actually affect your play experience. But as a by product of the infinite scaling of the d20 system, any skill you aren't putting points into at every level, becomes outclassed as you hit the higher levels.
The advantage of old school "3d6 down the line, statistics are where they stick" is that they authentically describe a real person. If you have an intelligence of 6, this means you are actually retarded, limited in the number of languages you can receive (and in Hackmaster, crippled in your skill acquisition). In 3rd edition, you have a -3 penalty to skill checks based off of intelligence. If you don't cast, this is the only limiting factor easily offset by the expenditure of some skill points.
I think it's a problem for me, because of the 'sameness'. There is no mechanical justification or reason in the more modern games to not pump your intelligence up to 24 if you are playing a wizard. There is no mechanical justification for not sacking your other statistics, (i.e. dump stats). Too much depends on this mechanical advantage (every 2 points in intelligence, making it 5% more likely your spells will work). And due to the default creation options, every wizard is a super-genius, instead of a real person with a variety of abilities.
The same can be found in discussions of characters with MAD or how multiple attribute dependency classes are weaker, because there are fewer 'dump stats'.
Well, I run a 1st edition / Hackmaster game, and let me tell you, there are no dump stats, no matter what your class.
Strength: The most important thing that strength does is carrying capacity. I see everyone focused on the plus to hit, or the extra damage - but the real value of strength comes from what you can carry around. Those few extra points of damage in the best case, might buy you a round of combat. It's very very rare that this has any actual impact upon play or the results thereof - and when it does, the issue of choosing to engage in combat was where the real choice was made. But when encumbrance comes up it always has an effect on play. (How are you going to carry those coins? How long are you afloat? How long can you stand there and beat on someone? How fast can you run again?)
Dexterity: Nothing spectacular here, but who doesn't want a lower armor class, and to hit better with missile weapons. Another critical issue with dexterity is the reaction adjustment. Oh, shit, the party is surprised? Well, you're surprised that much less. Considering surprise is the most dangerous part of an encounter, the most likely way for players to die, this can be critical.
Constitution: Again, having an average constitution is fine, but no one would call it a dump stat. Extra hit points, and increased survival chances from system shocks. Also, this is a major factor in your resistance to disease or alcoholism.
Intelligence: This represents the number of languages it is possible for you to know. This is a critical feature in my games. Also, in Hackmaster, it represents you chance to learn skills. Magic-Users needed this stat to determine the number of spells they could know per level, and their chance to learn spells. I think it's worth pointing out that this statistic allows someone to be an effective magic-user without being 18+. A magic user with an intelligence of 10 can cast spells up to 5th level, and know 7 spells of every level. An intelligence of 13 (above average) is needed to avoid spell failure chance.
Wisdom: This statistic in Hackmaster determines your % chance when you check a skill for that skill to automatically increase. If you're not playing a cleric, high or low values can affect your magical defense adjustment.
Charisma: This is the single most important statistic in old school play. Often derided as useless or without point, called the original dump stat - it is in fact the most crucial. It determines how many henchmen you may have and their loyalty. If you have a 17 in Strength, you may hit 15% more often and do an extra four or five points of damage. If you have a 17 Charisma, you get your attack and then your ten henchmen each get their attacks. Which will have a larger effect on combat?
Again, I point out that these aren't abstract combat statistics as they are in the later editions of the game. The reason I feel that the later editions have statistics that aren't representative of the characters is that the statistics almost exclusively affect combat orientated things. The above numbers do affect many things that affect combat, but not all.
They are representative of the capabilities of the character - who they are as a person.
Interestingly enough, reviewing "Men & Magic" I discover that more text is devoted to the effects of charisma then any other statistic.
Minggu, 07 November 2010
Session Fourteen
Murder, fight, slay, kill!
Wards and traps, Hydra Surprise!
Finally, Victory.
Tonight was marked by two notable events. First, I had three players not show up. Second, it was the first time I put of the screen and was more secretive and less helpful about what the players should do, and really made an effort to just react to what they did do.
The players not being there was a minor hiccup, the game was a lot more relaxed with just three people instead of six. I think four is a really good size. I'd like it if players could just come when they liked, and not feel constrained to show up to every session cause they have to. They seem to be having a good time. I was worried for a bit, but then was pleasantly surprised by how smoothly everything went.
I also think I did a bit of a better job not speaking so much. I did mention some things I feel in retrospect I should have been quiet about. But overall, there were several things they could have interacted with that I did not have fully prepared, and I just went ahead and described them as if they were there. I finally feel confident enough in my abilities to prepare on the spot something spontaneous for them, since I've been back in the saddle for two years now. :-) This week, I will begin preparing an 'unexplored environment package' to help facilitate this process, as well as reorganizing my folder and my ability to identify things on the map.
One of the things I mentioned had to do with the obscene number of henchmen the party is carrying around. Now this is traditionally a good idea, the problem is that each player wants to bring every henchmen along. I posted about it on Dragonsfoot, (WARNING PLAYERS: SPOILERS here), where I got a number of good replies. Most assumed that I'm not doing it by the book when in fact I am - they are paying their upkeep, giving them appropriate shares - the consequences of being broke and taking forever to level are just starting to hit home with them now. If they don't start leaving some of their extra bodies behind, they may find them leaving due to the limited amount they are being paid, along with decreased loyalty and failed morale checks.
So the party set out from the Lizard-man village of the Hightide Fen Clan, Spiritspyre the boarman cleric, Zeltara the currently deaf, elven, beastmaster gladiator, his mount Null, the silver drake, and his aide Kalen, and Aroldo Venti and his loyal whipping gnome Niles, the illusionist thief. Their goal was to retrieve the treasure left in the Mabden Treasure Cache (referenced here).
They headed out across the lake, and saw several drifting stony platforms, which they avoided. Exiting along the northern shore, they moved east, until it began to thunder (determined randomly using the weather tables) so they decided to seek shelter in an old abandoned watchtower. While passing this way before the Lizard-men guides mentioned that it was haunted. There were several destroyed buildings, and an entrance up to the watchtower. In the courtyard there was a damaged statue, with it's hand raised up in salute, missing it's head and other arm. It had a pattern of scars on it's chest, and wore a carving of woolen pants, tied with a string.
They entered the watchtower and saw a mural of this same creature, which they could now see had a shaven head of a panther. They climbed the stairs and entered the open air top of the watchtower, and set up camp in the middle. I mentioned at this point the platform had a spiral staircase, but I believe the players thought I was referencing the original staircase they climbed up, so they chose not to investigate it.
Surely at the strike of midnight the Nhadragh Skeletons spirits rose from the dead, climbing the spiral staircase and catching the players. They in fact were not surprised, but on the engagement distance, they rolled poorly and they started 20' away.
The fight was vicious and brutal. Several criticals were taken. Kalen received a terrible critical hit to the back of the head, shattering his basilar process of the Occipital bone, knocking him down. He fell, unconscious at -1 hit point. Aroldo cast Summon Monster I twice, summoning Ork-kin Bandits, and Corpse Skinks, filling the battlefield with blockers.
Six rounds later they managed to defeat their opponents. Kalen was close to death, hovering at -7 hit points. They did not want to use any cure spell less then a Cure Critical, because that would end up leaving him with permanent penalties and damages. They needed to stop the bleeding. Only having access to first aid, not healing, they had to staunch the blood flow by cauterizing the wound. This however also causes damage to the patient. A successful skill check was made and the damage was rolled, A 4! penetrating and getting a 3 for 6 total damage. And thus Kalen died.
They rested eight more hours and then prepared their spells. In the morning they examined the spiral staircase and found a 60' diameter chamber filled several feet deep with the bones of the dead Nhadragh. Something terrible had happened here. They again set out east.
They encountered a Hydra, which left them well enough alone. Not satisfied with this, they attacked it, and after getting in a round of attacks, they paralyzed it with Null's breath and made short work of it. They traveled on to the Mabden Cache. Reaching it, they gathered up the easily potable treasure, most importantly the ancient image art worth an incalculable fortune. Though heavy, they were determined to drag it to the boarman city.
They traveled north, and barring a bit where they became lost, they managed to reach the city on the shores of the s-shaped lake, where we ended for the night.
Normally I'd stop there, but I wanted to say, it'll be interesting to see next week when the rest of the party attempts to make the same journey, if they will make the same decisions.
Wards and traps, Hydra Surprise!
Finally, Victory.
Tonight was marked by two notable events. First, I had three players not show up. Second, it was the first time I put of the screen and was more secretive and less helpful about what the players should do, and really made an effort to just react to what they did do.
The players not being there was a minor hiccup, the game was a lot more relaxed with just three people instead of six. I think four is a really good size. I'd like it if players could just come when they liked, and not feel constrained to show up to every session cause they have to. They seem to be having a good time. I was worried for a bit, but then was pleasantly surprised by how smoothly everything went.
I also think I did a bit of a better job not speaking so much. I did mention some things I feel in retrospect I should have been quiet about. But overall, there were several things they could have interacted with that I did not have fully prepared, and I just went ahead and described them as if they were there. I finally feel confident enough in my abilities to prepare on the spot something spontaneous for them, since I've been back in the saddle for two years now. :-) This week, I will begin preparing an 'unexplored environment package' to help facilitate this process, as well as reorganizing my folder and my ability to identify things on the map.
One of the things I mentioned had to do with the obscene number of henchmen the party is carrying around. Now this is traditionally a good idea, the problem is that each player wants to bring every henchmen along. I posted about it on Dragonsfoot, (WARNING PLAYERS: SPOILERS here), where I got a number of good replies. Most assumed that I'm not doing it by the book when in fact I am - they are paying their upkeep, giving them appropriate shares - the consequences of being broke and taking forever to level are just starting to hit home with them now. If they don't start leaving some of their extra bodies behind, they may find them leaving due to the limited amount they are being paid, along with decreased loyalty and failed morale checks.
So the party set out from the Lizard-man village of the Hightide Fen Clan, Spiritspyre the boarman cleric, Zeltara the currently deaf, elven, beastmaster gladiator, his mount Null, the silver drake, and his aide Kalen, and Aroldo Venti and his loyal whipping gnome Niles, the illusionist thief. Their goal was to retrieve the treasure left in the Mabden Treasure Cache (referenced here).
They headed out across the lake, and saw several drifting stony platforms, which they avoided. Exiting along the northern shore, they moved east, until it began to thunder (determined randomly using the weather tables) so they decided to seek shelter in an old abandoned watchtower. While passing this way before the Lizard-men guides mentioned that it was haunted. There were several destroyed buildings, and an entrance up to the watchtower. In the courtyard there was a damaged statue, with it's hand raised up in salute, missing it's head and other arm. It had a pattern of scars on it's chest, and wore a carving of woolen pants, tied with a string.
They entered the watchtower and saw a mural of this same creature, which they could now see had a shaven head of a panther. They climbed the stairs and entered the open air top of the watchtower, and set up camp in the middle. I mentioned at this point the platform had a spiral staircase, but I believe the players thought I was referencing the original staircase they climbed up, so they chose not to investigate it.
Surely at the strike of midnight the Nhadragh Skeletons spirits rose from the dead, climbing the spiral staircase and catching the players. They in fact were not surprised, but on the engagement distance, they rolled poorly and they started 20' away.
The fight was vicious and brutal. Several criticals were taken. Kalen received a terrible critical hit to the back of the head, shattering his basilar process of the Occipital bone, knocking him down. He fell, unconscious at -1 hit point. Aroldo cast Summon Monster I twice, summoning Ork-kin Bandits, and Corpse Skinks, filling the battlefield with blockers.
Six rounds later they managed to defeat their opponents. Kalen was close to death, hovering at -7 hit points. They did not want to use any cure spell less then a Cure Critical, because that would end up leaving him with permanent penalties and damages. They needed to stop the bleeding. Only having access to first aid, not healing, they had to staunch the blood flow by cauterizing the wound. This however also causes damage to the patient. A successful skill check was made and the damage was rolled, A 4! penetrating and getting a 3 for 6 total damage. And thus Kalen died.
They rested eight more hours and then prepared their spells. In the morning they examined the spiral staircase and found a 60' diameter chamber filled several feet deep with the bones of the dead Nhadragh. Something terrible had happened here. They again set out east.
They encountered a Hydra, which left them well enough alone. Not satisfied with this, they attacked it, and after getting in a round of attacks, they paralyzed it with Null's breath and made short work of it. They traveled on to the Mabden Cache. Reaching it, they gathered up the easily potable treasure, most importantly the ancient image art worth an incalculable fortune. Though heavy, they were determined to drag it to the boarman city.
They traveled north, and barring a bit where they became lost, they managed to reach the city on the shores of the s-shaped lake, where we ended for the night.
Normally I'd stop there, but I wanted to say, it'll be interesting to see next week when the rest of the party attempts to make the same journey, if they will make the same decisions.
On Secrets and Spoilers
We had several of our players not show up this week.Because they may cover some of the same ground as the players that were here this week, I'm going to write the session fourteen post, but not post it till next Sunday when I will post it up at the same time as session fifteen.
Just know it was a lot of fun! :-)
Just know it was a lot of fun! :-)
Jumat, 05 November 2010
On Party Alignment
There are minor alignment spoilers for my group below, read at your own risk. The process for calculating the following involves adding each persons level, charisma reaction adjustment, and alignment modifier together. Then, Chaotic and Evil values are made negative. Then the totals for law/chaos and good/evil are added excluding neutral values to get a numerator. Then the totals are calculated as absolute values to get denominators. Then you divide out the fraction and check a table to find the party alignment.
The point of all this was that I was convinced that the party had a lawful evil drift, and it turns out, the party is straight up neutral. This might have to do with the extreme numbers of wildly divergent alignments. Right now external pressures are keeping these things in check, but once those (eventually) disappear, there will certainly be some conflict.
Numerator total for LAW/CHAOS = 29
Denominator total for LAW/CHAOS = 93
Numerator total for GOOD/EVIL= -17
Denominator total for GOOD/EVIL = 97
LAW/CHAOS is .31182
GOOD/EVIL is -.17525
Checking table 4A in the GMG, the party alignment is true neutral (with a drift towards lawful and evil).
If you just take the actual PC's, you end up with (22/51)(-13/52)
LAW/CHAOS is .43137
GOOD/EVIL is -.25
Leaving the party with a group alignment of lawful neutral (with an evil drift)
The table is quite simple. Anything over .33 is Lawful, anything under -.33 is Chaotic. Anything between is neutral. The same is for Good and Evil.
The point of all this was that I was convinced that the party had a lawful evil drift, and it turns out, the party is straight up neutral. This might have to do with the extreme numbers of wildly divergent alignments. Right now external pressures are keeping these things in check, but once those (eventually) disappear, there will certainly be some conflict.
Numerator total for LAW/CHAOS = 29
Denominator total for LAW/CHAOS = 93
Numerator total for GOOD/EVIL= -17
Denominator total for GOOD/EVIL = 97
LAW/CHAOS is .31182
GOOD/EVIL is -.17525
Checking table 4A in the GMG, the party alignment is true neutral (with a drift towards lawful and evil).
If you just take the actual PC's, you end up with (22/51)(-13/52)
LAW/CHAOS is .43137
GOOD/EVIL is -.25
Leaving the party with a group alignment of lawful neutral (with an evil drift)
The table is quite simple. Anything over .33 is Lawful, anything under -.33 is Chaotic. Anything between is neutral. The same is for Good and Evil.
Rabu, 03 November 2010
On a Failure of Perspective
Cyclopeatron in this post pointed me to this announcement.
Dear Wizards of the Coast:
Dungeons and Dragons is a niche product, that has had it's heyday. It has enough exposure that people who are interested in it have checked it out. The people that want to play it are playing it. You will never make money off of it, the way you can make money off of Magic: The Gathering.
I have a huge stack of materials that even if nothing were ever published again, I could keep playing forever. You look silly in your new hat,
Sincerely
-me.
Dear Wizards of the Coast:
Dungeons and Dragons is a niche product, that has had it's heyday. It has enough exposure that people who are interested in it have checked it out. The people that want to play it are playing it. You will never make money off of it, the way you can make money off of Magic: The Gathering.
I have a huge stack of materials that even if nothing were ever published again, I could keep playing forever. You look silly in your new hat,
Sincerely
-me.
On Death and Dying
So, there's a question on my favorite arrogant, narcissistic, 'love to hate it' blog The Tao of D&D about the role of the church, and more specifically how raise dead / resurrection affects the standing of the church in fantasy society.
It seems pretty clear to me that Alexis doesn't have much experience with the health care field. I've had these same questions (when I was 14) about how this spell worked and about how it fit inside a actual representation of medieval society. I've come to terms with them long ago. (jab, jab, poke, poke)
First, it must be understood that it's necessary for the game. In every edition, by the time you reach a level where encounters have a regular chance of killing you raise dead appears. In Pathfinder, the spell appears as soon as the math shows you start losing party members from average distribution of damage. In earlier editions, it's when players regularly start running up against things that have multiple save or die attacks. It's necessary to have the spell, because without it campaigns would end at higher levels from the death of everyone involved.
To this point, the general thrust of the discussion seems to be ways to make the cleric 'pay' to 'balance' raise dead. I think what the post and responses (which are clearly designed to encourage discussion) are missing is actually looking at what the spell does, and realizing that we can do it today.
The spell returns life to a dead body. It doesn't fix anything, heal wounds (beyond a few points of damage), or resolve any current social conflicts and it has a failure chance and a limited time frame in which to be cast. Specifically this means there has to be a body in reasonable condition, it can't die from natural causes (because they would just kill it again if it were raised), it has to be fresh and not around anyone who, say, would just murder it all over again.
I think what many people fail to recognize about our medial system is that when a person is in a hospital, we basically have the option of keeping their body living indefinitely. (Anyone who's ever called a 'slow code' just so you don't have to deal with the resurrection (sic) of the body can relate to how frustrating this can be). Certainly there's an issue with it not always working (System shock/Resurrection survival), and it gets harder as they get sicker (-1 constitution every time it happens), and it's very, very, very, very, expensive.
The change it makes in society aren't an enigma, because they are ours. Longer life span, control of diseases, antitoxins/antiserums, the changes are the ones that we are familiar with. It makes a society look like our society.
There is a factor of having the 'church' being in charge of the whole thing is a somewhat minor point, driven by the polytheistic nature of the fantasy setting. I haven't even begun to address the class/level rarity issue - Learning to be a doctor in our society takes a minimum of 12 years of school (4 college, 2 post grad, 4 doctorate, 2 residency), and it changes who they are. It takes over their whole life. You need (approximately, depending on your gaming system) a fifth level cleric for the basic medical spells, cure disease, cure blindness/deafness, and a ninth level cleric for raise dead. These are available in most large communities, just like doctors. But they are not common, and they require a large infrastructure and support system so that they can do their job. This, again, is similar to our current system. The costs are high, but cheaper in a fantasy realm then they are in reality. Even if you equate 1gp=20$ a hospital stay runs you a minimum of five thousand dollars a day just for lying there.
This doesn't necessarily address resurrection, which I've never had to deal with on a regular basis. However checking the game system I run, I see that it requires a 14th level cleric (over 1.35 million experience). I tally up experience and hand it out like the game says to do. It's a long road to 1 million experience - a long road just the quarter million you need to reach name level. It would take about 1 year of real time on average to reach name level, and about half a year for every level after that. So even for those 14th level clerics that exist, I imagine they are busy doing something besides helping their local communities. And if a PC cleric reaches that level? They earned it, let them resurrect away. I also note that resurrection has a substantial aging cost, limiting the number of resurrections the cleric can perform.
Again, would this make any changes to the way society functions? Not really. your average constitution gives a 75% chance this spell will work on you which gets worse every time it happens, it doesn't do anything if you screwed up your body (burned up, bashed head open, ruined liver, old). Sadly, much like modern day, just handing over the house to the church guarantees nothing. Also, people still fear pain.
Another interesting factor is that they have proof of an afterlife. Remember, raising only works on those souls that are willing, so how many people are going to want to leave heaven once they get there?
As far as handing money over to the players with no effort, I sympathize with Alexis. I have similar problems with my group. Given the option, they would spreadsheet earn their way to system mastery. I just use my infinite resources as a DM to make sure the rug of stability keeps getting yanked out from under them (in fair, sand-boxy, natural consequence, type ways) to keep them on the road to adventure!
Edit: Just a note added to point out that The Tao of D&D is one of the few blogs I've bothered to go back and read all of the posts. I agree a great deal with many of Alexis's posts, his thinking on many issues. He's also an excellent writer. I will continue to read and think about his blog posts. I will also continue to taunt him. :-) I wouldn't bother if it weren't an excellent blog.
It seems pretty clear to me that Alexis doesn't have much experience with the health care field. I've had these same questions (when I was 14) about how this spell worked and about how it fit inside a actual representation of medieval society. I've come to terms with them long ago. (jab, jab, poke, poke)
First, it must be understood that it's necessary for the game. In every edition, by the time you reach a level where encounters have a regular chance of killing you raise dead appears. In Pathfinder, the spell appears as soon as the math shows you start losing party members from average distribution of damage. In earlier editions, it's when players regularly start running up against things that have multiple save or die attacks. It's necessary to have the spell, because without it campaigns would end at higher levels from the death of everyone involved.
To this point, the general thrust of the discussion seems to be ways to make the cleric 'pay' to 'balance' raise dead. I think what the post and responses (which are clearly designed to encourage discussion) are missing is actually looking at what the spell does, and realizing that we can do it today.
The spell returns life to a dead body. It doesn't fix anything, heal wounds (beyond a few points of damage), or resolve any current social conflicts and it has a failure chance and a limited time frame in which to be cast. Specifically this means there has to be a body in reasonable condition, it can't die from natural causes (because they would just kill it again if it were raised), it has to be fresh and not around anyone who, say, would just murder it all over again.
I think what many people fail to recognize about our medial system is that when a person is in a hospital, we basically have the option of keeping their body living indefinitely. (Anyone who's ever called a 'slow code' just so you don't have to deal with the resurrection (sic) of the body can relate to how frustrating this can be). Certainly there's an issue with it not always working (System shock/Resurrection survival), and it gets harder as they get sicker (-1 constitution every time it happens), and it's very, very, very, very, expensive.
The change it makes in society aren't an enigma, because they are ours. Longer life span, control of diseases, antitoxins/antiserums, the changes are the ones that we are familiar with. It makes a society look like our society.
There is a factor of having the 'church' being in charge of the whole thing is a somewhat minor point, driven by the polytheistic nature of the fantasy setting. I haven't even begun to address the class/level rarity issue - Learning to be a doctor in our society takes a minimum of 12 years of school (4 college, 2 post grad, 4 doctorate, 2 residency), and it changes who they are. It takes over their whole life. You need (approximately, depending on your gaming system) a fifth level cleric for the basic medical spells, cure disease, cure blindness/deafness, and a ninth level cleric for raise dead. These are available in most large communities, just like doctors. But they are not common, and they require a large infrastructure and support system so that they can do their job. This, again, is similar to our current system. The costs are high, but cheaper in a fantasy realm then they are in reality. Even if you equate 1gp=20$ a hospital stay runs you a minimum of five thousand dollars a day just for lying there.
This doesn't necessarily address resurrection, which I've never had to deal with on a regular basis. However checking the game system I run, I see that it requires a 14th level cleric (over 1.35 million experience). I tally up experience and hand it out like the game says to do. It's a long road to 1 million experience - a long road just the quarter million you need to reach name level. It would take about 1 year of real time on average to reach name level, and about half a year for every level after that. So even for those 14th level clerics that exist, I imagine they are busy doing something besides helping their local communities. And if a PC cleric reaches that level? They earned it, let them resurrect away. I also note that resurrection has a substantial aging cost, limiting the number of resurrections the cleric can perform.
Again, would this make any changes to the way society functions? Not really. your average constitution gives a 75% chance this spell will work on you which gets worse every time it happens, it doesn't do anything if you screwed up your body (burned up, bashed head open, ruined liver, old). Sadly, much like modern day, just handing over the house to the church guarantees nothing. Also, people still fear pain.
Another interesting factor is that they have proof of an afterlife. Remember, raising only works on those souls that are willing, so how many people are going to want to leave heaven once they get there?
As far as handing money over to the players with no effort, I sympathize with Alexis. I have similar problems with my group. Given the option, they would spreadsheet earn their way to system mastery. I just use my infinite resources as a DM to make sure the rug of stability keeps getting yanked out from under them (in fair, sand-boxy, natural consequence, type ways) to keep them on the road to adventure!
Edit: Just a note added to point out that The Tao of D&D is one of the few blogs I've bothered to go back and read all of the posts. I agree a great deal with many of Alexis's posts, his thinking on many issues. He's also an excellent writer. I will continue to read and think about his blog posts. I will also continue to taunt him. :-) I wouldn't bother if it weren't an excellent blog.
Selasa, 02 November 2010
On time off
Posting has been light because we've taken the last two weeks off from gaming. Not having a game really changes the character of life. The days seem to blend together. There's no end or beginning to anything.
There's a game this Sunday I need to prepare for. It even looks like it might happen (my preperation).
I'll be glad to get back to it.
There's a game this Sunday I need to prepare for. It even looks like it might happen (my preperation).
I'll be glad to get back to it.
Rabu, 27 Oktober 2010
On Fight On! Versus The Dragon
I think one of the primary things that makes Fight On! a more useful tool then older issues of Dragon were was the default assumption given that DM's will figure out the statistic information for the game they are playing.
Part of the reason for the density of material and articles is the lack of extensive pages upon pages of stats, which is possible due to the statistic light nature of the game constellation that it serves.
Part of the reason for the density of material and articles is the lack of extensive pages upon pages of stats, which is possible due to the statistic light nature of the game constellation that it serves.
Selasa, 26 Oktober 2010
On the Division of Experience and Honor
I just wrote a long post on the division of honor and experience in my Hackmaster game and blogger ate it as soon as I was done. This is very frustrating.
Second attempt: I often find that information about old school games is lacking in specifics, (How wide is that hex? How large are your sandboxes?). So in order to address that, and because one of my players asked for a breakdown of the division, I'd figured I'd post this. This includes the last 2 weeks of play.
Experience:
Monster EP total is 8453.75
Treasure EP total is 1933.4
Total experience is 10387.15 / 16 total shares
Base award is 649.19687
Henchmen award is 324.59843 (1/2 base)
Bonus EP
Recovering Bera's remains: 100ep
"Solving" Bera's death: 200ep
No townsfolk killed during arrest and escape: 50ep
Entering swamp for first time: 100 ep
Eradicating Bullywug outpost: 250 ep
Crossing unnamed lake (100ep) with Lizard-man guides (/10 penalty): 10ep
Total Individual award is 710ep
Base party Award is 1359.19687ep
Honor:
Honor is awarded in temporal form, i.e. 4 points of honor gained equal 1 permanent actual point of honor. After the positive and negative values are totaled together, I divide by 4, drop the remainder, and that is the increase or decrease in honor.
Group awards:
Fighting a worthy opponent in combat: +42
In school or training: -3
Being publically disparaged by a superior/inferior: -12
Banished: -5
Individual Awards:
Final total Awards:
Spiritspyre 2343.2163 / +7 honor
Hardimore 1429.318/1429.318 / +9 honor
Zeltara 2707.1066 / +8 honor
Arolodo 1427.1560 / +9 honor
Usis 1824.996 / +9 honor
Elimen 1359.19687 / +8 honor
Kyra 1359.19687 / +6 honor
This calculation took about 2 hours to complete. Blogger eating my post turned this post into a 2 hour ordeal, instead of a 1 hour job. I spend on average 3 hours per 'adventure' calculating honor and experience. Sometimes the adventure can be over several weeks, meaning I only need to do this once a month or so. It's quicker when they are low level, but I have to do it more often. It's more complicated when they are higher level, but they level less quickly, and I have to do it infrequently (they tend to go on longer and longer excursions).
The last step is to send out an e-mail informing everyone of their final numbers, after I prepare myself for the deluge inevitable comments. ("You forgot this!", "I shouldn't have lost honor for that!", "I'm not getting enough experience!")
Second attempt: I often find that information about old school games is lacking in specifics, (How wide is that hex? How large are your sandboxes?). So in order to address that, and because one of my players asked for a breakdown of the division, I'd figured I'd post this. This includes the last 2 weeks of play.
- Spiritspyre
- Hardimore
- Gwenevere
- Authunto
- Zeltara
- Nash
- Quent
- Kalen
- Arolodo
- Smoke
- Niles
- Gwendolyn
Petrus- Usis
- Elimen
- Kyra
Experience:
| Monster EP Beetle 420*2 Bird 2000 Corrupted Feral Gorm 160*2 Frogs 0 (Fled) Hightide Fen Lizard-Man 35*15*.25 (Befriended) Hightide Fen Lizard-Man Mage 65*2*.25 (Befriended) Bullywugs 65*24 Advanced Bullywugs 120*4 Bullywug Clerics 195 245 295 520 Alligators 65*3 Hyrdra 2000 | Treasure EP Coins 419.4 Barrels (Swamp Herbs) 960 Casks 16 Steel Bars 120 Jar of Pearls 20 Malachite 150 Opals 48 Earrings 48 Bracelets 80 Belts 72 |
Monster EP total is 8453.75
Treasure EP total is 1933.4
Total experience is 10387.15 / 16 total shares
Base award is 649.19687
Henchmen award is 324.59843 (1/2 base)
Bonus EP
Recovering Bera's remains: 100ep
"Solving" Bera's death: 200ep
No townsfolk killed during arrest and escape: 50ep
Entering swamp for first time: 100 ep
Eradicating Bullywug outpost: 250 ep
Crossing unnamed lake (100ep) with Lizard-man guides (/10 penalty): 10ep
Total Individual award is 710ep
Base party Award is 1359.19687ep
| Spiritspyre: +10% 1359.19687ep +21 Healing +750 Best Supporting Player Final: 2130.1967 | Hardimore: +20% 1359.19687ep +23 Healing +1000 Most valuable player Final 1429.318/1429.318 |
| Zeltara: +5% 1359.19687ep +351 Most damage +270 Most damage single roll +38 Most damage taken +160 Most damage taken single roll +400 Percision cutting (3 criticals) Final: 2707.1066 | Aroldo: +5% 1359.19687ep Final:1427.1566 |
| Usis: +25% 1359.19687ep 100.8 Treasure stolen Final: 1824.996 | Elimen: Final:1359.19687ep |
| Kyra: Final: 1359.19687ep |
Honor:
Honor is awarded in temporal form, i.e. 4 points of honor gained equal 1 permanent actual point of honor. After the positive and negative values are totaled together, I divide by 4, drop the remainder, and that is the increase or decrease in honor.
Group awards:
Fighting a worthy opponent in combat: +42
In school or training: -3
Being publically disparaged by a superior/inferior: -12
Banished: -5
Individual Awards:
| Spiritspyre: Healing +3 Defeating Bullywugs: +4 Final: +49/-20 | Hardimore: Healing +4 Defeating Bullywugs: +10 Final: +56/-20 |
| Zeltara: Delivering criticals: +3 Defeating Bullywugs: +10 Final: +55/-20 | Elimen: Accused of a crime: +3 Defeating Bullywugs: +7 Final: +52/-20 |
| Usis: Delivering death blow to helpless opponents: +5 Accused of a crime: +3 Defeating Bullywugs: +7 Final: +57/-20 | Aroldo: Entering combat sans armor: +5 Failing a skill course: +1 Defeating Bullywugs: +10 Final: +58/-20 |
| Kyra: Accused of a crime: -5 Defeating Bullywugs: +10 Final: +52/-25 |
Final total Awards:
Spiritspyre 2343.2163 / +7 honor
Hardimore 1429.318/1429.318 / +9 honor
Zeltara 2707.1066 / +8 honor
Arolodo 1427.1560 / +9 honor
Usis 1824.996 / +9 honor
Elimen 1359.19687 / +8 honor
Kyra 1359.19687 / +6 honor
This calculation took about 2 hours to complete. Blogger eating my post turned this post into a 2 hour ordeal, instead of a 1 hour job. I spend on average 3 hours per 'adventure' calculating honor and experience. Sometimes the adventure can be over several weeks, meaning I only need to do this once a month or so. It's quicker when they are low level, but I have to do it more often. It's more complicated when they are higher level, but they level less quickly, and I have to do it infrequently (they tend to go on longer and longer excursions).
The last step is to send out an e-mail informing everyone of their final numbers, after I prepare myself for the deluge inevitable comments. ("You forgot this!", "I shouldn't have lost honor for that!", "I'm not getting enough experience!")
On Modern Principles in Old School Games
While reading Dragon issue #118 I ran across two articles for adding systems in Advanced Dungeons and Dragons that Hackmaster has as part of it's core rules.One article on Pain ("ARRRGH!!!"), and another on Hero Points ("A Hero's Reward").
Dungeons and Dragons has always had an abstract hit point system. It was added to the earliest versions as an enhancement to the chainmail rules way to prevent the characters from dying instantly. People got attached to their characters, and this was a way to allow them greater survivability. This abstraction is very 'gamey'. There are no long term consequences for damage. In the older versions, the primary nod to actual damage was the rest required after being dropped below 0 hit points.
This is a great thing in the context of people playing a game. Who wants to roleplay walking around in a cast for six months. Over the years, more than one or two people has said - this is entirely unrealistic (by which they mean, it's destroying their suspension of disbelief)
The article uses a system of "cumulative wound tracking" with a variety of "wound location charts" each containing penalties for future actions. This means as you get closer to death you are less and less effective in combat (versus the default system where you are 100% until you're out). These wounds are abstract, not tied to a location. There is an 'advanced' variant where the wounds can be on a particular limb, providing more specific penalties.
This system is exceedingly complicated requiring tracking of every individual wound greater then a percentage of hit points based off your race, class and constitution. There are half a dozen matrices in the article giving those percentages. Most of the percentages are between 18%-21%. At the levels of hit points that old school characters have these small fluctuations will hardly ever make any difference in the sizes of the wounds.
Hackmaster characters have a lot more hit points than normal Dungeons and Dragons Characters (the 20+ hp kicker). I've been exceedingly impressed with it's system for critical/pain/called shots. It overcomes the obvious issues with extended grindfests due to high hit point totals by having a "Threshold of Pain". Every time you take damage in a melee round equal to 1/2 or more your starting hit point total, you must make a saving throw versus death or fall to the ground incapacitated by pain. This speeds things up greatly and helps maintain that suspension of disbelief. Another unforeseen benefit to this system is that often after a fight, many of the participants are still alive, although possibly in shock and on the way to death.
As far as individual wounds, Hackmaster works just like the earlier abstract models, unless you're dealing with criticals, which can cause specific wounds to bones, internal organs, or muscles. This system is also complicated, ignored for the most part on the monsters (where the bonus damage is what's important). But for the players, the benefit is that they can sustain long term consequences from their battle. I've found that this avoids being overbearing, because it has to be a fairly severe critical hit on a vulnerable location before these things come into play. I can think of maybe 20 or so wounds over the course of nearly 2 years of play where this became a factor.
It is totally possible in old school play to just arbitrary describe wounds based off damage done, but I find that a table like the Hackmaster critical table prevents Dungeon Master bias as well as enhancing creativity. ("Wow, I hit him in the eye again!")
I also have to say that I'm a big fan of the called shot system in Hackmaster. It's often very difficult to prevent called shots from being strictly better or worse then normal attacks, and I think it does a very good job of riding that line. There are differing penalties for the sizes of body parts on differing sizes of creatures applied to the roll (1 chart). You critical on a 19-20 instead of a 20. There is another table for the 'armor coverage' of different armor types (1 chart). There is a third page showing how much damage each body part can sustain before it becomes disabled (1 reference picture). It makes them a useful tool that can achieve a specific effect at a consequence. You normally only need two of the pages, and I have them together for when it comes up in a game. A little extra reference, but by no means overwhelming.
The hero point article is fairly simple. Players get points equal to their level every day which they can use to alter rolls by +/-1 per point. On a first read, this seemed extremely broken to me for several reasons, as well as missing one of the core issues of these types of systems.
The whole idea behind hero/action points is that players should have some meta-control over the game. This is a good solid principle. A group of people are getting together to play a game, it's only reasonable that they should have some say in what happens in that game - action/hero points are a mechanical way of having that happen. There are a lot of random die rolls in a game, and allowing the players to mitigate some of that randomness is a very modern idea, but in play is very useful. If you're playing in a game with save or die, and the party is middle to high level, having an in game system for hero points and mulligans is fun for the players, since failing often turns into just a gold tax. I don't feel it's specifically opposed to the principles of old school play.
Again, I like the Hackmaster system better. They have honor, which you can spend to add your honor die to rolls (which changes based on your level). Characters in great honor get +1 to all rolls, one mulligan a session, and bonus experience and reduced leveling costs. You may also purge your honor (spending it all) to avoid any one in game event, but this can put you in bad karma, locking you into low honor, unable to advance.
There are some problems with it also. Points are given based off a large series of actions in the context of player alignments. The system allows a large degree of wiggle room and DM fiat (40 points +/- per PC per 'adventure' when most table awards are 1-4 per action), but if I'm assigning honor based off my own whims, it may not be nearly as consistent as what the table suggests. So I spend a long time (~3 hours) dealing with experience and honor after each game session.
Why don't I just handwave it and hand out what I think is close? I'm certain I'd be close to the table most of the time. If I just handed honor or experience out, eventually I'd just be deciding the pace of the game. Maybe there's nothing wrong with that you say? In the context of old school play, there is. Regardless of what they do, their actions don't matter because the pace is being set by me instead of by them. So yes, it takes some additional time to go down the list of honor awards for every PC and total up all the experience. But the end result of having players know that when they reached level eight after 15 months that they earned it, every last experience point, and that there was no guarantee that they would survive that long is of far greater benefit then the time I spend calculating these values.
Dungeons and Dragons has always had an abstract hit point system. It was added to the earliest versions as an enhancement to the chainmail rules way to prevent the characters from dying instantly. People got attached to their characters, and this was a way to allow them greater survivability. This abstraction is very 'gamey'. There are no long term consequences for damage. In the older versions, the primary nod to actual damage was the rest required after being dropped below 0 hit points.
This is a great thing in the context of people playing a game. Who wants to roleplay walking around in a cast for six months. Over the years, more than one or two people has said - this is entirely unrealistic (by which they mean, it's destroying their suspension of disbelief)
The article uses a system of "cumulative wound tracking" with a variety of "wound location charts" each containing penalties for future actions. This means as you get closer to death you are less and less effective in combat (versus the default system where you are 100% until you're out). These wounds are abstract, not tied to a location. There is an 'advanced' variant where the wounds can be on a particular limb, providing more specific penalties.
This system is exceedingly complicated requiring tracking of every individual wound greater then a percentage of hit points based off your race, class and constitution. There are half a dozen matrices in the article giving those percentages. Most of the percentages are between 18%-21%. At the levels of hit points that old school characters have these small fluctuations will hardly ever make any difference in the sizes of the wounds.
Hackmaster characters have a lot more hit points than normal Dungeons and Dragons Characters (the 20+ hp kicker). I've been exceedingly impressed with it's system for critical/pain/called shots. It overcomes the obvious issues with extended grindfests due to high hit point totals by having a "Threshold of Pain". Every time you take damage in a melee round equal to 1/2 or more your starting hit point total, you must make a saving throw versus death or fall to the ground incapacitated by pain. This speeds things up greatly and helps maintain that suspension of disbelief. Another unforeseen benefit to this system is that often after a fight, many of the participants are still alive, although possibly in shock and on the way to death.
As far as individual wounds, Hackmaster works just like the earlier abstract models, unless you're dealing with criticals, which can cause specific wounds to bones, internal organs, or muscles. This system is also complicated, ignored for the most part on the monsters (where the bonus damage is what's important). But for the players, the benefit is that they can sustain long term consequences from their battle. I've found that this avoids being overbearing, because it has to be a fairly severe critical hit on a vulnerable location before these things come into play. I can think of maybe 20 or so wounds over the course of nearly 2 years of play where this became a factor.
It is totally possible in old school play to just arbitrary describe wounds based off damage done, but I find that a table like the Hackmaster critical table prevents Dungeon Master bias as well as enhancing creativity. ("Wow, I hit him in the eye again!")
I also have to say that I'm a big fan of the called shot system in Hackmaster. It's often very difficult to prevent called shots from being strictly better or worse then normal attacks, and I think it does a very good job of riding that line. There are differing penalties for the sizes of body parts on differing sizes of creatures applied to the roll (1 chart). You critical on a 19-20 instead of a 20. There is another table for the 'armor coverage' of different armor types (1 chart). There is a third page showing how much damage each body part can sustain before it becomes disabled (1 reference picture). It makes them a useful tool that can achieve a specific effect at a consequence. You normally only need two of the pages, and I have them together for when it comes up in a game. A little extra reference, but by no means overwhelming.
The hero point article is fairly simple. Players get points equal to their level every day which they can use to alter rolls by +/-1 per point. On a first read, this seemed extremely broken to me for several reasons, as well as missing one of the core issues of these types of systems.
The whole idea behind hero/action points is that players should have some meta-control over the game. This is a good solid principle. A group of people are getting together to play a game, it's only reasonable that they should have some say in what happens in that game - action/hero points are a mechanical way of having that happen. There are a lot of random die rolls in a game, and allowing the players to mitigate some of that randomness is a very modern idea, but in play is very useful. If you're playing in a game with save or die, and the party is middle to high level, having an in game system for hero points and mulligans is fun for the players, since failing often turns into just a gold tax. I don't feel it's specifically opposed to the principles of old school play.
Again, I like the Hackmaster system better. They have honor, which you can spend to add your honor die to rolls (which changes based on your level). Characters in great honor get +1 to all rolls, one mulligan a session, and bonus experience and reduced leveling costs. You may also purge your honor (spending it all) to avoid any one in game event, but this can put you in bad karma, locking you into low honor, unable to advance.
There are some problems with it also. Points are given based off a large series of actions in the context of player alignments. The system allows a large degree of wiggle room and DM fiat (40 points +/- per PC per 'adventure' when most table awards are 1-4 per action), but if I'm assigning honor based off my own whims, it may not be nearly as consistent as what the table suggests. So I spend a long time (~3 hours) dealing with experience and honor after each game session.
Why don't I just handwave it and hand out what I think is close? I'm certain I'd be close to the table most of the time. If I just handed honor or experience out, eventually I'd just be deciding the pace of the game. Maybe there's nothing wrong with that you say? In the context of old school play, there is. Regardless of what they do, their actions don't matter because the pace is being set by me instead of by them. So yes, it takes some additional time to go down the list of honor awards for every PC and total up all the experience. But the end result of having players know that when they reached level eight after 15 months that they earned it, every last experience point, and that there was no guarantee that they would survive that long is of far greater benefit then the time I spend calculating these values.
On Magazines of the Past and the Future
So, I purchased issues number 8, number 9, and number 10 of Fight On! out of curiosity. I had heard good things; so I grabbed those, and about 10 old issues of Dragon magazine and headed to work. I have a lot of time to read where I work.
My first thoughts upon reading were, "Holy crap! This is better then anything in these Dragons!" Then I discovered, I was not the first to have such a thought, and there was a bit of controversy about that particular line of thinking.
For what it's worth, what I specifically mean by that thought, is that I found more useful articles in one issue of Fight On!, more articles that I am going to whole cloth drop into my game, then in the ten or so issues of Dragon that I grabbed (ranging from issue 100-190). This is simply a fact. There is more content per page, the contents are more varied and complex, specifically in a visual sense, and there are more things that are immediately useful to me as an RPG.
The Dragon's on the other hand, had three or four long articles an issue, often with an obscene (3-4 pages) amount of research on 'historical context' and several shorter articles. There was a great deal more consistency between each article, and a much larger interest in providing a imaginative historical context "to understand how D&D was meant to be played".
I recommend against visiting any link in this post - the vitriol surrounding some of this is galactic in the scope of it's stupidity. I've been so excited and so busy having fun with all this fun gaming I've been doing, going through some of this commentary has been a slap in the face. Horrible rants about one of the creators of this hobby being a toad, to spiteful arguments back and forth about some random descriptor - it's adults and publishers acting like Wizards of the Coast forum trolls.
Summary:
My first thoughts upon reading were, "Holy crap! This is better then anything in these Dragons!" Then I discovered, I was not the first to have such a thought, and there was a bit of controversy about that particular line of thinking.
For what it's worth, what I specifically mean by that thought, is that I found more useful articles in one issue of Fight On!, more articles that I am going to whole cloth drop into my game, then in the ten or so issues of Dragon that I grabbed (ranging from issue 100-190). This is simply a fact. There is more content per page, the contents are more varied and complex, specifically in a visual sense, and there are more things that are immediately useful to me as an RPG.
The Dragon's on the other hand, had three or four long articles an issue, often with an obscene (3-4 pages) amount of research on 'historical context' and several shorter articles. There was a great deal more consistency between each article, and a much larger interest in providing a imaginative historical context "to understand how D&D was meant to be played".
I recommend against visiting any link in this post - the vitriol surrounding some of this is galactic in the scope of it's stupidity. I've been so excited and so busy having fun with all this fun gaming I've been doing, going through some of this commentary has been a slap in the face. Horrible rants about one of the creators of this hobby being a toad, to spiteful arguments back and forth about some random descriptor - it's adults and publishers acting like Wizards of the Coast forum trolls.
Summary:
- Ignore most of the above links
- Fight On! is awesome
- Dragon magazine was focused on providing imaginative background for Dungeon Masters and less on actual useful gaming material
Selasa, 19 Oktober 2010
On the Worst Sessions Ever
I've been reading several interesting threads over on the paizo boards about the worst player/gm stories. When reading things like that, I always have a sour feeling in my stomach. This anxiety is a feature of my personality I've learned to ignore, I've long ago come to terms with the traumas of my youth. The physiological sensation that occurs in response to someone else passing judgment on other peoples malfeasance that I (may) recognize in myself remains.
This is related tangentially to my earlier post this week. I would like to clarify that not one thing said about my players was meant to be taken as a critique. It was simply a process of communicating about what one likes, which is what seems to be the primary problem on these worst player/gm threads. Lack of communication and maturity seems to be the key factor in these stories.
Recently the Tao of D&D commented about the need for a "universal rule variation repository". This seems like an excessively pointless exercise because I'm hanging out with my friends while we role-play (or wargame, or card game, or boardgame). Our house rules and norms are just what works for us - hence why my earlier post wasn't a critiqe. I'm simply more knowledgable about what they enjoy. There is no absolute external metric for "fun".
Dungeons and Dragons, in spite of the desires of many people throughout its history, is not a competitive sport. The vast majority of players are playing with people who are their friends and family.
The greater part of these horror stories have to do with situations where this is not the case. People trying out games with new people because they are looking for a game instead of trying out new games because they are looking for an activity to do with their friends.
Let's examine some of these stories:
Rape in the game stories: there can be a place for this in a game. Last weeks session used this, along with other horrible to distinguish that not only were the bullywugs evil (which many likeable people are, including no less than four party members) but that they were morally repugnant with no redeeming value. At no point were such activites ever performed on the pcs. Also, I talked beforehand with the players to ensure that none had any problems with such lurid descriptions (and yes, the players are mixed gender).
However these examples included players having their pc's rape other players pc's who a) were played by female characters and b) playing their first game with the group. There was more than one tale about DM's trying to use rape survivor as origin for female pc's.
Is it surprising that in these same games rape exclusively means male on female violence? I'm going to say no. There was no mention of horror stories of male/male rape.
There were several comments by people who attempted to justify such behavior as simulationist. i.e. "the DM can't do anything about that because he shouldn't control in player choices" this is, I hope, plain to all as raw idiocy. Anyone who is acting to make someone uncomfortable or cause trauma has nothing to do with a game. Any sort of abuse, violence, or harassment should be addressed.
I've had my own player horror stories where something similar occurred. One player decided that because he turned out to not like the style of game he requested to try out that he would start pissing in game on NPCs. This is childish and immature (not what I would expect from a college educated father of 2), and that was iirc the last session I ran for that group of people.
The game was boring/stupid/deadly: There were several of these types of stories - a player showed up and the group was going from room to room killing monsters, occasionally in alphabetical order. Or the group 'looked for adventure' for four sessions but didn't find any, and was told by the DM that if they wanted adventure they would have to make it on their own. Or the group that didn't name their PC's. Or the one that had 14 players, and when the player brought up to the DM that some of them felt left out, the DM replied "They should have spoken up."
It's in response to these I have to cringe. I understand why each of these was a 'horror story', but I see all of the above as valid styles of play. Hell, even Gygax himself ran with 10+ members in a group, and had players who didn't name their PC's (Bob's cleric, etc.) On of my players used to do that exact thing of rolling random encounters out of the Monster Manual for her brothers to kill. The primary issue I see with the above horror stories is one of communication (and possibly the vocabulary to communicate about them). I could see myself running a game where the players make their own actions and the world responds, instead of a traditional dungeon crawl.
It certainly seems that if people were better informed about what these games consisted of, there would have been no horror story. I feel that sitting in judgment over other peoples games and what they enjoy is a little silly. I mean for my next trick, should I tell them they are masturbating wrong?
The creepy/immature/crazy player: There were many of these. I however don't consider these a class of gaming story because it's just a factor in anything you might choose to do - there are these types of people in all fields and interests, and I don't think role-playing has any greater or lesser percentage of them. Of course this view might be colored by the fact that I work in an Insane Asylum, and out of the 1000 or so (unique) patients we've had since I've worked there, I've only ran into 1 who even had heard of Role-Playing games.
I'm pressed for time, so I'll summarize. There are no gaming horror stories, just horrible people and bad communicators.
This is related tangentially to my earlier post this week. I would like to clarify that not one thing said about my players was meant to be taken as a critique. It was simply a process of communicating about what one likes, which is what seems to be the primary problem on these worst player/gm threads. Lack of communication and maturity seems to be the key factor in these stories.
Recently the Tao of D&D commented about the need for a "universal rule variation repository". This seems like an excessively pointless exercise because I'm hanging out with my friends while we role-play (or wargame, or card game, or boardgame). Our house rules and norms are just what works for us - hence why my earlier post wasn't a critiqe. I'm simply more knowledgable about what they enjoy. There is no absolute external metric for "fun".
Dungeons and Dragons, in spite of the desires of many people throughout its history, is not a competitive sport. The vast majority of players are playing with people who are their friends and family.
The greater part of these horror stories have to do with situations where this is not the case. People trying out games with new people because they are looking for a game instead of trying out new games because they are looking for an activity to do with their friends.
Let's examine some of these stories:
Rape in the game stories: there can be a place for this in a game. Last weeks session used this, along with other horrible to distinguish that not only were the bullywugs evil (which many likeable people are, including no less than four party members) but that they were morally repugnant with no redeeming value. At no point were such activites ever performed on the pcs. Also, I talked beforehand with the players to ensure that none had any problems with such lurid descriptions (and yes, the players are mixed gender).
However these examples included players having their pc's rape other players pc's who a) were played by female characters and b) playing their first game with the group. There was more than one tale about DM's trying to use rape survivor as origin for female pc's.
Is it surprising that in these same games rape exclusively means male on female violence? I'm going to say no. There was no mention of horror stories of male/male rape.
There were several comments by people who attempted to justify such behavior as simulationist. i.e. "the DM can't do anything about that because he shouldn't control in player choices" this is, I hope, plain to all as raw idiocy. Anyone who is acting to make someone uncomfortable or cause trauma has nothing to do with a game. Any sort of abuse, violence, or harassment should be addressed.
I've had my own player horror stories where something similar occurred. One player decided that because he turned out to not like the style of game he requested to try out that he would start pissing in game on NPCs. This is childish and immature (not what I would expect from a college educated father of 2), and that was iirc the last session I ran for that group of people.
The game was boring/stupid/deadly: There were several of these types of stories - a player showed up and the group was going from room to room killing monsters, occasionally in alphabetical order. Or the group 'looked for adventure' for four sessions but didn't find any, and was told by the DM that if they wanted adventure they would have to make it on their own. Or the group that didn't name their PC's. Or the one that had 14 players, and when the player brought up to the DM that some of them felt left out, the DM replied "They should have spoken up."
It's in response to these I have to cringe. I understand why each of these was a 'horror story', but I see all of the above as valid styles of play. Hell, even Gygax himself ran with 10+ members in a group, and had players who didn't name their PC's (Bob's cleric, etc.) On of my players used to do that exact thing of rolling random encounters out of the Monster Manual for her brothers to kill. The primary issue I see with the above horror stories is one of communication (and possibly the vocabulary to communicate about them). I could see myself running a game where the players make their own actions and the world responds, instead of a traditional dungeon crawl.
It certainly seems that if people were better informed about what these games consisted of, there would have been no horror story. I feel that sitting in judgment over other peoples games and what they enjoy is a little silly. I mean for my next trick, should I tell them they are masturbating wrong?
The creepy/immature/crazy player: There were many of these. I however don't consider these a class of gaming story because it's just a factor in anything you might choose to do - there are these types of people in all fields and interests, and I don't think role-playing has any greater or lesser percentage of them. Of course this view might be colored by the fact that I work in an Insane Asylum, and out of the 1000 or so (unique) patients we've had since I've worked there, I've only ran into 1 who even had heard of Role-Playing games.
I'm pressed for time, so I'll summarize. There are no gaming horror stories, just horrible people and bad communicators.
On Where is that Train Headed?
Brought to my attention on Drawings & Dragons there is this post on the 4e message boards.
To be short, it's a set of powers that is only fluff, and has no mechanical information or benefit.
The other day on /traditional games/, there was a thread about an marketer doing research for an "unnamed company" that was quizzing professional women 20-35 on how they felt about Dungeons and Dragons. (Here's a hint, They don't like it, or you.)
I assume that there are many intelligent college-educated people at Hasbro. Is it flat out ignorance that makes them think they can turn Dungeons and Dragons into a moneymaker like Magic? Don't they realize it's a niche product?
More importantly, don't they know beyond the shade cast by conception of momentary doubt that a product that tries to appeal to everyone appeals to no one?
I am only comforted by the fact that people, in the end, tend to act in the same ways over and over making them statistically like to get the natural consequences for their actions.
To be short, it's a set of powers that is only fluff, and has no mechanical information or benefit.
The other day on /traditional games/, there was a thread about an marketer doing research for an "unnamed company" that was quizzing professional women 20-35 on how they felt about Dungeons and Dragons. (Here's a hint, They don't like it, or you.)
I assume that there are many intelligent college-educated people at Hasbro. Is it flat out ignorance that makes them think they can turn Dungeons and Dragons into a moneymaker like Magic? Don't they realize it's a niche product?
More importantly, don't they know beyond the shade cast by conception of momentary doubt that a product that tries to appeal to everyone appeals to no one?
I am only comforted by the fact that people, in the end, tend to act in the same ways over and over making them statistically like to get the natural consequences for their actions.
Senin, 18 Oktober 2010
On Old School Gaming
I perused the "A Quick Primer to Old School Gaming" document earlier tonight, and it got me thinking about our game. (Although the link above is currently not letting me download, it can be read here at Scribd but for goodness sakes, don't try to download it from there!)
Although the core of our game is an old school ascetic, there are strong new school influences on our game. I talked earlier about really starting to know my players, and there are several 'new-school' things that I think many of my players would be unhappy without.
We like our numbers and our fiddly skills. I often call for rolls for things like identifying spells or various other small things, none of those things are truly important. For the most part, simply having a skill no matter the level it is at is enough to succeed. I think without those skills many players would feel a much reduced sense of accomplishment. Skill selection is the single longest part of character creation. Even though something like the SIEGE system is much faster and in game achieves the same effect, while removing a vast amount of bookkeeping; my players would be much less happy without the fiddly bits. They like the crunchy gamey stuff.
The other thing I think is difficult for my players has little to do with what they think is fun, and more to do with the type of people they are. Not that there is such a thing as 'true' old school gaming, but when faced with the classical 'search each room in the dungeon as if you were actually there' scenario given inside the document several problems would quickly start to occur. One of my players would wonder why we were 'wasting time' that could have been spent fighting something. Another would have a great idea, but get distracted and totally forget about any sequential plan of action. Another would be concerned about the abstract fairness of the meta-interaction. Another is just happy someone besides him is taking point.
The point of this post is not just commentary on 'what my players are like' but instead a step by step primer on 'how to go about role-playing successfully in an old school style'. They touched on this within the document, but I found their list lacking. This is a listing on what I would do if I were a player within my game. Perhaps this will help other players be more effective and proactive in their old school games.
Although the core of our game is an old school ascetic, there are strong new school influences on our game. I talked earlier about really starting to know my players, and there are several 'new-school' things that I think many of my players would be unhappy without.
We like our numbers and our fiddly skills. I often call for rolls for things like identifying spells or various other small things, none of those things are truly important. For the most part, simply having a skill no matter the level it is at is enough to succeed. I think without those skills many players would feel a much reduced sense of accomplishment. Skill selection is the single longest part of character creation. Even though something like the SIEGE system is much faster and in game achieves the same effect, while removing a vast amount of bookkeeping; my players would be much less happy without the fiddly bits. They like the crunchy gamey stuff.
The other thing I think is difficult for my players has little to do with what they think is fun, and more to do with the type of people they are. Not that there is such a thing as 'true' old school gaming, but when faced with the classical 'search each room in the dungeon as if you were actually there' scenario given inside the document several problems would quickly start to occur. One of my players would wonder why we were 'wasting time' that could have been spent fighting something. Another would have a great idea, but get distracted and totally forget about any sequential plan of action. Another would be concerned about the abstract fairness of the meta-interaction. Another is just happy someone besides him is taking point.
The point of this post is not just commentary on 'what my players are like' but instead a step by step primer on 'how to go about role-playing successfully in an old school style'. They touched on this within the document, but I found their list lacking. This is a listing on what I would do if I were a player within my game. Perhaps this will help other players be more effective and proactive in their old school games.
- Make a listing of all your goals and keep it in front of you on a 3"x5" note card.
- Have a blank scratch paper for the sole purpose of writing down names, ideas, thoughts, and questions when talking with NPC's
- Seek out various NPC's before doing anything and talk to them. A list of suggested NPC's are below.
- Townspeople
- Guardsmen
- Town Officals
- Bartenders
- Bar Patrons/Other Adventuers
- Various 'guilds' (Merchant as well as nefarious)
- Religious Organizations
- Sages and Magic-Users
- Talking to NPC's:
- When you talk to the NPC's GET THEIR NAMES. Your DM is running these people as people - when you walk up to them rudely, they respond rudely. Don't be overly obsequious either.
- 50%-70% of all rumors and NPC information is false in all published materials. This should be a clue to how much you believe what they say. Default into thinking that what you are being told is false - even when it looks like they know what they are talking about. (This advice is NOT relevant for sages. They charge a pretty penny, because you know what you are getting is the truth).
- Trust your eyes and your investigation abilities.
- Think very hard about their perspective on the situation. When you do get information from someone, even if you are sure it is true, remember to treat it like a theory. Be prepared to revise it as soon as you receive additional or conflicting information.
- Cover each and every goal on your list with every NPC! Use your goals sheet as a checklist. In a sandbox game there will be many threads going on at once.
- Accomplishing goals
- There are two ways to accomplish anything in old school play. Money, and Adventure.
- You can pay the gold to buy training, or answers from the sages, or spells cast for you, or certain specific magic items. Often this is a way to compensate for bad play (except in the case of sages - sometimes your only option). This (money) is the real source of power in old school gaming, and it's fast and effective - but very expensive.
- Or you can engineer the situation to get what you want.
- Do not walk up to the person and go "What can I do to make you X" Where X is 'give me free training' or 'lead me to the magical whosit'. It may work at the very start of a campaign or adventure, but mostly it gets blank stares. (Think about someone coming up to you and going "What can I say to make you buy a vacuum today/believe in Jesus Christ our zombie lord/donate blood" Mostly the response is "Gah!")
- Do observe the person. See where they go, who they talk to, what they do.
- Talk to other people about the person indirectly. Say something that you know is just slightly wrong, and listen to the way people correct you. "Joesph isn't just in charge of the lighthouse - he also is on the city council, right?"
- Then, once you know the score, you can assist/blackmail/bribe/coerce the person into giving you information, training, etc.
- Often there may simply not be anything prepared there, but that becomes less and less likely the more important the person is. Most old school DM's have exploitable relationships like this prepared. If they don't they will either develop something on the spot or use this to lead you to what is going on that's interesting.
- Going on an Adventure
- Be a boy scout. (Be prepared!)
- That means mounts, pets, men-at-arms, torchbearers, equipment, food, and supplies, weapons, armor, and spare shields.
- Treat those men you buy well! Give them extra gold, take risks for them. Talk to them and make sure they are comfortable. Over 100% loyalty is crazy nice.
- Scout ahead! Time and time again, I've seen the scout not be sent ahead because it was dangerous. That is their 'fsking job! It's not like they are nearly as effective as any of the other classes in combat. Their biggest advantage is not getting surprised, discovering the enemies and reporting back to the party. This helps the party avoid being surprised - the single biggest killer of PC's.
- Avoid combat at all costs. Experience comes from treasure. Monsters give very little ep value compared to treasure and carry a high risk. If you have an encounter with an enemy that appears even mildly intelligent PARLEY. Even if their alignment is diametrically opposed to yours, your job isn't fixing the whole world (at this point), it's accomplishing your immediate goal. This is why certain inflexible classes are so difficult to adventure with (Paladin, I'm looking in your direction).
- If in doubt, run. I've started pretending to track damage for creatures immune to weapons the party is using unless it is very obvious that they are not working. You cannot kill everything, and you will run into things you can't kill.
- Make sure your party mapper comes prepared with actual real world tools to map (Paper) and some sort of organizational scheme for the maps.
- Ask lots of questions about the environment. Remember any unusual words the DM mentions. There is an economy of language - rooms 'seem' empty, you 'think' you don't find any traps. If there's dust on the floor, is it ancient debris? Or pulverized bone from the ceiling crushing down every 4 minutes? Or powdered blood and flesh from a disintegrate trap? Not asking about the dust on the floor means you're going to be the dust on the floor.
- Look up
- Test the floor - every floor, every time.
- Make sure your marching order is effective. Like Gygax says, short people up front, then elven bowmen, then your men with pikes. Maximize your damage potential. Focus fire on targets until they are down. Don't ever assume anything is dead.
- Cut open the stomach of every monster, even if you didn't kill it. (Especially if you didn't kill it).
- Search every item in every room. Break apart rusty pipes, check pedestals, daises, idols, everything.
- Set a watch at a chokepoint while you're searching.
- The most important thing of all: Have a party goal and STICK TO THE PARTY GOAL. Do not be distracted.
Session Thirteen
A strange mystery
sacrifice of a small girl,
who would have done this?
Find the murder,
what's this, Elimen, oh no!
The demons are us!
So this session begins with the attack on the Bullywug Soldiers of Rexxor the Maul. The battle contained a few surprises - the land entrances were warded, paralyzing several members of the party. When the party crossed into the lake, they discovered pet Alligators. And on the second round of combat they Bullwugs unleashed a captured Hydra on the party. Although there were several close calls, there were only a few deaths. Several of their Lizard Man allies were killed and Petrus died.
I italicized and underlined the name, because since his creation Petrus the gnome-titan fighter has been in a strange limbo. He is both a player character and and a non-player character (but not a monster) because he was rolled up a a potential player character. A potential player character is a rolled up henchmen to help mitigate the death of a main PC, to assist "getting back into the game" instead of having to start at level one. His death was strange also - one of the henchmen (Smoke Soames, a party favorite) received a critical hit to the top of his head. Not wanting him to die, one of the players pulled out a coupon, that allowed him to accomplish an outlandish task, and inserted his shield between the blow. The maul (because what other weapon do members of a tribe named Rexxor the Maul use?) Slid off and caused the same critical to the head of Petrus. And so he met his death.
They examined the camp after the battle and learned that indeed Bullywugs are repugnant. I gave lurid descriptions of the horrors that they found. Initially I gave little thought to the fact that I was going to mention the rape and other enormities that they committed, but I was reading this thread over on the pathfinder boards about DM horror stories, and a surprising number of them were about DM's inserting lurid material in a game. So before the game started I asked if anyone wanted me to turn on a filter for the descriptions of such horrors. The group however seemed ok with it.
I'm finally starting to feel after a year of gaming with these people and thirteen games into this campaign that I know them a little. As in I'm starting to understand who they really are, as opposed to who I perceived them to be.
After the battle, they looted and destroyed the camp finding fourteen human corpses, dozens of dead Lizard Men and Gnoll corpses, and only a single living human prisoner, an old old woman who they could not understand when she spoke. They then followed the Lizard Men, back to their home camp. The journey was somewhat uneventful, with a bit of sightseeing on the side.
Two wildly divergent bullet points here:
Further discussion with A'haz'vid and one of his expedition leaders named Qui'pid informed them that they no longer needed to attack the Bullywugs any more because they had "won". And if they ever "lost" by having the Bullywugs attack again, they would strike back and "win" again. They laughed that strange lizard laugh at the suggestion that they attack them again - they've already won! They also discovered they were "stupid" for building their city on the coast. Everyone knows that the coastal cities are all destroyed by "Sea Demons". They asked if these "Sea Demons" were "Fish People" and they were laughed at. Fish aren't people, silly humans.
At this, with a base found, and information gained, we called it a night.
sacrifice of a small girl,
who would have done this?
Find the murder,
what's this, Elimen, oh no!
The demons are us!
So this session begins with the attack on the Bullywug Soldiers of Rexxor the Maul. The battle contained a few surprises - the land entrances were warded, paralyzing several members of the party. When the party crossed into the lake, they discovered pet Alligators. And on the second round of combat they Bullwugs unleashed a captured Hydra on the party. Although there were several close calls, there were only a few deaths. Several of their Lizard Man allies were killed and Petrus died.
I italicized and underlined the name, because since his creation Petrus the gnome-titan fighter has been in a strange limbo. He is both a player character and and a non-player character (but not a monster) because he was rolled up a a potential player character. A potential player character is a rolled up henchmen to help mitigate the death of a main PC, to assist "getting back into the game" instead of having to start at level one. His death was strange also - one of the henchmen (Smoke Soames, a party favorite) received a critical hit to the top of his head. Not wanting him to die, one of the players pulled out a coupon, that allowed him to accomplish an outlandish task, and inserted his shield between the blow. The maul (because what other weapon do members of a tribe named Rexxor the Maul use?) Slid off and caused the same critical to the head of Petrus. And so he met his death.
They examined the camp after the battle and learned that indeed Bullywugs are repugnant. I gave lurid descriptions of the horrors that they found. Initially I gave little thought to the fact that I was going to mention the rape and other enormities that they committed, but I was reading this thread over on the pathfinder boards about DM horror stories, and a surprising number of them were about DM's inserting lurid material in a game. So before the game started I asked if anyone wanted me to turn on a filter for the descriptions of such horrors. The group however seemed ok with it.
I'm finally starting to feel after a year of gaming with these people and thirteen games into this campaign that I know them a little. As in I'm starting to understand who they really are, as opposed to who I perceived them to be.
After the battle, they looted and destroyed the camp finding fourteen human corpses, dozens of dead Lizard Men and Gnoll corpses, and only a single living human prisoner, an old old woman who they could not understand when she spoke. They then followed the Lizard Men, back to their home camp. The journey was somewhat uneventful, with a bit of sightseeing on the side.
Two wildly divergent bullet points here:
- I must be running in the only campaign in the world ever in the history of gaming, where when the party gets a hint that somewhere is "Dangerous" they resolutely vow to never venture there. I mean, we're playing Dungeons & Dragons, right? They are supposed to be adventurers. I just don't know what gives.
- I discussed tonight that "I talk to much". Every player AFAIK has been greatly enjoying almost every session. But the other week I mentioned that getting run out of town wasn't a bad thing because it wasn't that long until circumstances would have conspired to force them to remain mobile anyway. Several of my players mentioned that this gave them extremely negative feelings, and it was in some substantive way 'less fun' if that was 'taken away from them'. I totally listen to my players and their thoughts and feelings, but this was about an event that hasn't happened yet.
I run a game powered to the extreme by player agency. If I give them five options, and they pick option six, then it is definitively different then the other options. They are in control of their destiny, and their choices matter. I also never fudge. However I'm finding that when I let them in on certain behind the scenes decision making processes even though 5 out of 7 of the players are highly experienced Dungeon Masters it is destroying their ability to suspend disbelief. I can't talk to them as my peers when I am running a game they are in, because when I am running a game, I am not their peer. I'm their Dungeon Master. A responsibility of facilitation and adjudication that I do love, but in so doing, separates me during the game. I cannot fulfill my duty or responsibility to them at the same time as I'm their buddy.
I've always had a huge problem with authority, and this is a very very very difficult thing for me to cope with. It's why I have such a hard time being quiet - I am simply not comfortable with the detached aspect of running a game. So I'm going to work on it. I told them I'm putting the screen up from now on. - I mention this 'talking too much' point because I avoided mentioning that there was only one person left alive because of how long it took them to find the Bullywug camp. At the start all of those folks were alive, and as time passed they slowly died, one by one. The list of missing people was the very first thing they saw when they got off the boat.
Further discussion with A'haz'vid and one of his expedition leaders named Qui'pid informed them that they no longer needed to attack the Bullywugs any more because they had "won". And if they ever "lost" by having the Bullywugs attack again, they would strike back and "win" again. They laughed that strange lizard laugh at the suggestion that they attack them again - they've already won! They also discovered they were "stupid" for building their city on the coast. Everyone knows that the coastal cities are all destroyed by "Sea Demons". They asked if these "Sea Demons" were "Fish People" and they were laughed at. Fish aren't people, silly humans.
At this, with a base found, and information gained, we called it a night.
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